Video: Fury is the lineal champ

Joshua v Klitschko was not for the Ring belt, I think Fury still had that then. Interestingly Joshua didn't mention the Ring belt when he was talking to Kugan Cassius the other day. Also interesting that the Ring have Fury at number 2 behind Joshua, so they would need to fight for the winner to have that belt - the most credible, I feel...

 

Until the top three clear things up none of them can claim lineal. The guy with the most legit claim is Joshua, as Fury avoided a rematch with Wlad and quit the sport. In the meantime Joshua has cleared out any legitimate named challengers, minus wilder who ran away from the biggest payday he'll ever see.

 

Lineage is such a stupid concept at this stage I have absolutely 0 respect for it. Fact is, Fury went away for 3 years and he abandoned any claim to being the man to beat. AJ has taken that spot from him and there's no mental gymnastics that can twist that.

 

Never discredited it just asked some questions
He is my favourite HW.
I just wanted some further idea of how people view lineal

 

I agree with everything in Rumsfeld's video except the last point.

If Lennox Lewis came out of retirement & asserted his claim to the lineage it would still be valid.

Rumsfield mentions there's no historical precedent for this.

I say yes there is - in property law which is what h/w title lineage is essentially based on. In property law, an earlier valid claim to title will defeat a later valid claim.

There's also precedent in the fighters he mentions in the video who have come out of retirement. It's not for us to impose an artificial time limit on how long a fighter has to be retired for before his title lineage is extinguished.

Of course, as with property law, a claim to title has to be asserted.

Lennox is retired & has never made any claim to the title since.

Fury is the only valid claimant to h/w title lineage & is the current lineal champion.

Even if Wilder & Joshua had fought while Fury was briefly retired, I would take the view that Fury's earlier legitimate claim to the title would take precedence over a valid later claim.

 

While I've already disagreed in my post above you actually make a brilliant point. I actually agree and retract my thinking of Joshua being lineal. Great post.

 

Thanks mate. Not everyone will agree, but true h/w title lineage is based on long-established & sound principles.

 

Isn't the saying " He beat the man that Beat the man "? Then go and look who the "Man" was that Wlad defeated to get Lineal.
near 3 years out, caught Doping and has 2 wins over very sub-standard opposition and a Draw against Windmiller Nah he ain't no Lineal

 

Except the law as pertains to a fictional title doesn't exist, and thus has no validity.

If it's not for us to impose an artificial time-limit, then who is it for? The imaginary boxing Supreme Court?

 

All that matters is that Joshua holds belts without a win over the champion, fury took those belts from klitschko, Joshua took nothing but a gift referee stoppage against Charles Martin of all people. The lineage of those belts comes from klitschko which fury took. Joshua has to beat Fury to cement himself as undisputed champion of those currently paper titles he holds before facing the WBC champion to become The Undisputed champion.

 

Yeah, there's an inherent problem here — what to do with an (old) lineal champion if he decides to come back after retirement? Not an easy question, for sure... I like the Ring magazine logic here — they do not automatically restore The Ring magazine champion if he decides to box again after long inactivity, they just expect him to beat "the man" (whoever they consider the best at that moment) again.

 

Thank you.
I do feel Fury is arguably the man again.

On the other thread someone asked that had Fury got injured and retired against Seferi, would you have considered Seferi as lineal champ?

 

That's the dealbreaker right there. No one in their right mind would have accepted Seferi as lineal champion.

 

That's another of the herd of elephants standing in the lineal shaped room.
Same thing as Ali would have opted for a tune-up against a journeyman before "fighting" Holmes. Good chance he would have lost in his condition, and then most historians would probably have declared the lineage broken.