VIDEO: Henry Armstrong vs. Ernie Roderick & Ceferino Garcia II

My2Sense · Oct 19, 2009

Sorry for the shameless bump, but I was hoping to get some more discussion on the actual fight itself.

chimba · Oct 19, 2009

Those ignorant threads at the General who think Pac is the only Pinoy greats we have had. We have a rich history from Pancho to Elorde to Ceferino who was the inventor of the bolo punch

My dinner with Conteh · Oct 20, 2009

Great call My2S and more good work from RB as usual. I particularly loved the Roderick footage again (i've sene it hundred times). The reason being my grandad was at ringside for the Armstrong fight as his sister was married to Ernie's brother.

MrMarvel · Oct 20, 2009

Don't have time to check your facts, but if this is right, you pretty much scored a knockout!

My2Sense said: ↑

A number of your points are not accurate, and your timeline is off.

-Steele was never undisputed champ. During his reign, Thil had been recognized in Europe, and later Corbett on the west coast.

-Corbett was never the NY champ. He fought Apostoli for NY's vacant title (after it had been stripped from Steele) and with his own west coast title on the line. Apostoli won them both when he beat him.

-Apostoli beat three reigning title claimants - Steele, Thil, and Corbett - in the span of about a year, which earned him general recognition as the best MW in the world regardless of what titles he actually held. That Steele had refused to risk his title against him further bolstered his reputation as the #1 MW.

-Steele lost the only title recognition he had left (the NBA) when Hostak KO'd him. Steele retired after that.

-Hostak then lost the NBA title in his first defense to Kreiger, a fighter who was considered a second-rate contender and who Apostoli had already beaten twice. A week or so later, Apostoli beat Corbett to win the other two titles. That the NBA title was now held by a fighter Apostoli had twice beat pretty much solidified his place as the top MW.

-Ring magazine then rated Apostoli as the #1 MW in the world, with the world title being considered vacant.

-Conn was officially competing at LHW when Apostoli lost to him, so those losses don't have any bearing on his standing at MW.

-Garcia beat Apostoli when he was rated as the #1 MW, taking both his titles in the process. The Ring then rated Garcia as the #1 MW, as did many other people. Afterward, Apostoli moved up to LHW.

-Hostak refused big money offers to meet Garcia in a unification match, leading to widespread criticism that he was "ducking" Garcia. Shortly afterward he lost a non-title fight to Zale, who was only a fringe contender at the time, which further damaged his reputation.

At the time Armstrong fought Garcia, he had been undefeated since moving up to MW, had crushed the top rated Apostoli, had beaten other rated contenders like Walter Woods and Lloyd Marshall, and had successfully defended his titles once already. His only rival to the top spot in the division at that time was Hostak, but Hostak's reputation suffered from his inconsistency, his alleged ducking of Garcia, and his general reluctance to fight outside his home state.

As far as Garcia's strength and power goes... Well, Apostoli had been considered the strongest and toughest fighter in the division, and Garcia had stood toe-to-toe with him and overpowered him. The general consensus appears to have been that Garcia was stronger and better after moving up in weight (which Garcia himself admitted). Ex-welterweight or not, the results speak for themselves.

As far as not looking impressive on film... Well, how many of his fights are there on film? Does Hostak look any better?
Click to expand...

Zulawski · Apr 12, 2020

Getting to see Armstrong bully a guy with 20lbs on him like that is something. I thought Garcia snuck in some heavy uppercuts early when he was more upright on the ropes, but Armstrong started getting his glove in the way and almost falling over to escape them. Great use of the shoulder and upper arm to make space. Pretty nasty rake of Garcia's face with the top of his head early. I scored it for Armstrong, but I can see 5 rounds for Garcia. Fair enough decision. Watched Armstrong beat Barney Ross to a pulp right before this. What a mauler. Read he had some experience wrestling. He would've probably made a solid greco roman guy. Great center of gravity, always lower than his opponent, drives with his legs.

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VIDEO: Henry Armstrong vs. Ernie Roderick & Ceferino Garcia II

My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

Zulawski The Fistic Pariah Full Member

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VIDEO: Henry Armstrong vs. Ernie Roderick & Ceferino Garcia II

My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

Zulawski The Fistic Pariah Full Member