Video - How good was Tokyo Douglas?

No because Ali still had the same trainer and Tyson post Rooney may have beaten Ali from the Spinks rematch, he was showing signs of parkinson`s after the Shavers bout. Tyson post Rooney would have destroyed Spinks.

 

Ali was a sex addict but it didn`t effect his training during the 60`s.

 

Foreman looked like a crude toughman with no craft or ring IQ. Embarrassingly sloppy at times. I thought he looked awful.

Btw, didn't Foreman more or less claim that he was stoned (or drugged, anyway)

Im not sure how a fight between Zaire Foreman and Tokyo Tyson would have gone, other than that it probably would have been a slug out that ended earlier than either of their fights did.

 

Spinks was decent defensively v Mike and was trying to be defensive even when punching he just wasn`t good enough, Tyson was a master at finding holes, Spinks was scared and a little stationary but his gloves were held up pretty high and he was wary.

 

Ali was brilliant v Foreman his glove control was insane and he was landing rear hand jabs at great speed, Tyson was like a zombie v Douglas, he didn`t throw even half the amount of shots Foreman threw v Ali, it was a much better fight overall, Douglas simply slapped Tyson all over the place aside from when he overcomitted with his jab and got caught by the counter uppercut in the 8th.

 

I think you are overstating Ali’s performance and underrating Douglas’. Of course Tyson didn’t throw as many shots as Foreman! Douglas was a highly elusive, moving target, who was firing hard punches from outside and timing Tyson coming in. Foreman, on the other hand, spent much of the fight clumsily wailing away at a relatively stationary Ali, with punches that were for the most part either picked off or off-target. Tokyo Tyson would have beaten up that version of Ali, if Ali had for whatever reason tried to fight him using that same style. All the “glove control” and “rear hand jabs” in the world wouldn’t have saved him.

 

lol! Ali would have destroyed that Tyson he was far quicker and in much better shape his counter punches were quicker.

 

Tyson post Rooney would certainly have beaten Spinks and a 36-year old Ali with the beginning of Parkinson, but I don't see what that has to do with what I wrote.

And I personally don't subscribe to that Tyson lost that much, if any, just because he lost Rooney.

 

I don’t subscribe to that either. Rooney trained Tyson under Cus supervision. After Cus death Rooney was still playing audio tapes of Cus speaking during Tyson’s training sessions. Does that make Rooney a great trainer? Tyson knew what to do by then himself. Rooney was only there to maintain that foundation. Literally playing a broken record of Somebody else talking.

Arron Snowell was not a crappy trainer. He worked with a lot of champions. He was with Tim Witherspoon. He masterminded Frankie Randall’s win over J.C. Chavez. I have found an interview with Snowell.


“You gotta realize something, and I want to say, I trained Mike Tyson for fights before that. Many people just think I trained him for the fight in Tokyo. I trained him for fights before that and I trained him in fights after that, so lets clear that up (laughing). I have trained a lot of fighters and a lot of world champions”

“He was very young and he was talented, man. Let me say something, they can say whatever they want about Mike Tyson, but for Mike Tyson to get himself in that position, he trained hard. He was relentless and that's what made him the Superman he was because he had a good work ethic. He would train very hard. The mental controls the physical and when a fighter is not mentally ready for the task at hand, you're not going to get the same result physically. Mike always had a psychologist, even when he was working with Cus D'Amato, to keep him focused, but Mike had put it in his mind. He was there, but he wasn't there. And like anything, when ego and stuff come into play, you feel I can get away with it this time. But one thing about Mike Tyson, he puts himself on the line and that's what makes great legends thrilling. If he don't knock somebody out, he's going to get knocked out trying to knock somebody out and it's going to be exciting. These fighters nowadays, most of them don't want to put themselves across the line to knock somebody out, and that's because there are risks with doing that. However, in a big fight, when you're at a certain level, there really ain't no losers. Ray Leonard been knocked out, Tommy Hearns been knocked out, George Foreman been knocked out, and Joe Frazier been knocked out. Joe Louis been knocked out. All of the great legends, with the exception of a few, have been knocked out. But it's not how they were knocked out. It's how they came back. It's the thrill of victory and even when they get knocked out, it's going to be thrilling.”

“When you're in the game and you know who you are, people are going to spin things to sell newspapers. And people are going to say things, like Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas, all of the things they said about me, I know it ain't true. I know it ain't true and they say things because they are looking for people to write and keep their names in newspapers, so they just say anything off the cuff. But the proof is in the pudding!“

 

Tyson was nowhere near the fighter he was under Rooney, he was amazing, his counter punching body punching an amazing counter/pressure fighter his timing was better and he threw brilliant combo`s, he slipped more shots and his jab was more potent, he was pretty useless after Rooney was fired.

 

Useless? First round KO's of Williams and Steward. Dominating and knocking out Bruno and Ruddock. Thats so far from useless that it's not even funny.

The need to make excuses for Tyson just makes people lose all sense of reality. Apart from the loss to Douglas, Tyson was an absolute wrecking machine from parting ways with Rooney until prison.

 

After Cus death Rooney was still playing audio tapes of Cus speaking during Tyson’s training sessions. Does that make Rooney a great trainer? Tyson knew what to do by then himself. Rooney was only there to maintain that foundation. Literally playing a broken record of Somebody else talking.

If Rooney was there his whole career Tyson would still lose when he lost. And it’s still a great career.

Once the fighter has been taken to that optimum level, the actual career prime, it’s down to him after that. It’s on him. He’s already surrounded with the best of what he needs because he got there. The boxer knows his own limitations. What it takes to get there. Nobody is taking you beyond your limitations. They just need guys around to maintain that level for as long as it lasts.

 

No, he wasn`t focused or disciplined in training and needed reminding of what to do, he needed drills to make it muscle memory, Rooney helped Tyson adjust during his bout with Tucker, telling him to get underneath the jab to land the uppercut, he did just that, before that it was a close fight.

This content is protected

 

Holy dominated Tyson easily, Bruno hurt Mike in the first round of their first bout because Mike was no longer defensively responsible, Ruddock was exposed by Lewis after the Tyson bouts.

 

Chavez was finished by the time Randall fought him and what did Witherspoon learn from him and what did he achieve with him, the guy was saying nothing to Mike v Douglas at all, he knew absolutely nothing about boxing at all.