Video - How good was Tokyo Douglas?

Those examples are really for people who don’t understand boxing. Marvis Frazier is even called “Marvin” in this video. It’s like they don’t realise he was even a top contender. So it’s no surprise the examples make no sense.


Situations require individual responses.


Tyson worked on making a Marvis duck and timing an uppercut when Marvis ducked. The decoy he needed in that situation was not a body shot. Rooney being asked what Tyson should work on to improve was just a routine stock question. He said he’d like to see more body shots in a 30 second fight which was likely a joke.


It doesn’t mean Tyson went away and developed body punching. He was already breaking guys in half with body punches before Marvis.


Fighters take the openings as they present themselves. And they create them in the ring after working on how to achieve them in the gym.


You can’t show an example of Marvis being knocked out without taking a punch to the body then demonstrate body punching leading to Michael Spinks being knocked out in one round as proof of improvements in one round knockouts.


One guy ducked onto uppercuts, the other retreated behind a high guard. And it always looks great if you land the right punch at the right time. Tyson did the right thing both times. It was correct to uppercut a ducking head and it was right to get under the elbow when the guard goes up. Rooney supervised the training for both fights. But Tyson does the same ting in the same situation without Rooney. Because fighters take the openings as they present themselves.

 

When everyone talks about Tyson post Rooney they focus on the bobbing and weaving etc etc etc but Rooney did give him excellent advice in the corner. This is almost always overlooked.

 

This is true. But so did everybody else.

 

Rooney was deeply rooted in the Tyson style. Don't even begin to tell me those clowns did an ok job in Tokyo.

 

Go to 11.25 of this video you already posted and listen to Tyson himself. “My trainer had me work on getting in. slipping and punching. Slipping and punching instantaneously. And getting in that’s the hardest thing. So I did it and I was successful” the trainer he was talking about? Arron Snowell.

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There is nothing more Rooney could have done.

Once the fighter has been taken to that optimum level, the actual career prime, it’s down to him after that. It’s on him. He’s already surrounded with the best of what he needs because he got there. The boxer knows his own limitations. What it takes to get there. Nobody is taking you beyond your limitations. They just need guys around to maintain that level for as long as it lasts.

The cut man Snowell had did not have the right kit on the night. But that dosnt take away anything Rooney could have said or done.

Douglas knew what Tyson was going to do all night. Before he did it. And he was still going to know if Rooney was in Tyson’s corner.

 

Holy was after prison. Tucker also rocked Mike early. Tubbs landed good shots in the first and second. This idea that Rooney Tyson couldn't be touched is a myth. He had a terrific defense, but was also a short swarmer. Of course he was going to be hit now and then.

Lewis ended several good fighters early, doesn't mean they were exposed. And Tyson had likely taken something out of Ruddock by that time. Lewis had more trouble with Bruno than Tyson did, though. Same with Holy and Steward, and Holmes and Williams.

Nobody blew them away like Mike did, and only Lewis was more dominant against Ruddock. That should tell you something.

 

Couldn't care less, not "could care less".

 

Maybe you are better off not caring.

 

Debatable.

Nah. Tyson's system was anything but a common or orthodox one. There is no doubt that Rooney knew a lot more about it and how to train it than anyone following him. Tyson might not be the brightest and perhaps he needed to keep drilling that style.

Whilst i believe the whole bobbing and weaving Rooney thing is overdone it would still have been beneficial for Tyson to have Rooney there - of that i have no doubt. How beneficial is up for debate.

Boxing is full of victories which get devoted to astute strategies. It has been the difference in numerous fights. Good corner advice can turn a fight around.

Even one dimensional fighter like Tyson can get fight changing advice from the right guy. Rooney was certainly the right guy. and it's two fold if not three. Firstly he drilled and trained him in his own style better than anyone. Secondly he gave him excellent advice from the corner within his own style and skillset. Thirdly and perhaps most importantly Tyson could be quite peculiar particularly when under pressure. Rooney was by far the best at dealing with Tyson mentally. He kept him calm and focused when Tucker spolied and he had trouble getting him out of there. He also kept him quite calm when Thomas provided surprising resistance in their intersting affair. Tyson was definitely better with Rooney in his corner.

Of course the biggest problem in Tokyo was how poor his dedication and attitude had become. This would have been a mountain for any trainer to overcome.

Snowell was pretty ordinary that night for mine.

No he didn't. He simply came in with a fantastic gameplan and executed it beautifully. His gameplan and execution is what put Tyson to the sword. Douglas was there to win (for once) and really backed it up technically.

Douglas stifled and negated Tyson with his own offense. He didn't cover under Tyson's offense - he handled it with a great jab and movement or hammered back depending.

 

Those drills he had been doing since childhood. He knew them inside out. You cannot really undo that. That’s the fighter it made and that’s the fighter he was. Everything Tyson had been doing he had been working hard at. It had taken him to a prime boxing machine.

A new trainer is not going to change something that works. And he always worked hard and he always had good coaching, good sparring and good matchmaking.

Certainly there is a benefit to Rooney knowing Tyson for as long and knowing him so well. training is an extremely intimate thing you have to have people around who know the fighter. And Tyson was still shrewd enough to keep other guys from the Cus set up in his camp throughout his career to maintain that continuity. So he had that part covered.

Everyone looks good winning and everyone is only so good for so long. All fighters reach a point in their career where they need to adapt and compensate. Each time you are out there fighters are looking for elements that can be exploited. If everything stays the same it can be perceived as predictability.

What helped Tyson a lot was as well as being the best guy in the division, as champion he was also the most active guy in the top ten. A lot of the time he was fighting guys who couldn’t get serious competition because everyone was waiting for a shot at Tyson. It was an incredible advantage really. Not many were able to bring their A-game against Tyson.

So if things got difficult against an opponent, eventually that opponent was going to fall short because he just wasn’t as well prepared to fight.

no I don’t agree here. The differences in Tyson’s dedication and attitude started around the Berbick fight. It was around the time where there was bigger gaps between fights. Being busy every two weeks kept him focused. Tyson strikes me as a person who’s personal life was always separate to his training. When he was in the gym he trained hard.. For Tucker he went missing for two weeks then came back for the final 4 weeks.

The gameplan was so well executed that Douglas literally had an answer for nearly every moment of the fight. Whenever Tyson tried Something Douglas had an answer. The footwork was amazing. Whatever Tyson was going to do he needed to first break that distance. He was never going to break that distance with Douglas that night because Buster was just too good to let him do it That night.

 

Mike picked to take a night off when his opponent was fighting for affirmation after his own mother's death. Douglas couldn't have beaten him any time before (and, I suspect, after). In a way Buster was like Frazier at FOTC. I think BD would have surprised many, many great champs that night.

Alas, it was necessarily a one-off.

 

Hi mate, I have always thought that the average fan doesnt really appreciate how much toughness, will to win and conditioning have to do with being a good let alone great fighter.

There have been endless blokes who had the talent to be really good if not great fighters but they lacked either the will to keep fighting when it gets really difficult or the discipline to condition themselves as well as they could.

Buster was a classic example in this regard. He was the son of a really good fighter in Billy " Dynamite " Douglas so he would have basically known how to box correctly from a VERY young age which is a usually a massive advantage in boxing. Buster also had excellent size, excellent coordination and balance and excellent hand and foot speed for such a big man.

What Buster didnt have was a genuine love of boxing and the will to train as hard as he could or bite down on his mouth guard and will himself to win a fight when the going got really hard.

The only time Buster went into a fight with that kill or be killed mentality that the great ones ( and many of the good but less gifted ones have ) have was against Tyson.

I reckon the death of Buster's mum, the fact nobody gave him any chance at all vs Tyson and the fact that Iron Mike was a killer type who always tried to intimidate his opponent and take their manhood away fired Buster up enough that he fought with the kind of mentality the great ones have.

Being a pretty normal kind of fella and in his heart of hearts a friendly and peaceful big guy Buster was never going to be the kind of champion say a Holyfield was but on that one night he would have been a massive handful for anyone.

Cheers All.

 

I was only 3 when they fight happened. But why am I on Medicare now? SMH..