[Video] Laszlo Papp - 3x Olympic Gold Medalist

You can attempt to belabor this point all you want, it doesnt change the fact that the promoter of Muller-Giardello 2, Jupp Thelen, made Giardello's travel and training arrangements on his behalf and when he did he booked Giardello in a bad hotel, cut the heat to the gym he arranged Giardello to train at while it was winter outside and prevented Giardello from utilizing good sparring partners. As I said before, when Giardello wasnt operating under this handicap he kicked the living **** out of Muller with ease, as did most of the top opponents Muller fought. Even with the advantages that Mueller had the local press scored the fight 3-2-5 for Mueller. Wow, thats a resounding victory...

Actually he was unlucky that Fullmer wasnt DQd and thats why he resorted to paying Fullmer back in kind. Ive seen the entire fight so I dont have to read press reports. I can judge for myself. Giardello deserved to win as he was the only one fighting. Fullmer started out throwing headbutts and when Giardello gave him some of his own medicine he wined and cried and after BOTH fighters were warned to keep it clean Fullmer stopped fighting and instead clinched most of the fight because he knew he wasnt losing a decision in the intermountain states. Its comical trying to paint Giardello as some protected fighter winning gift decisions while in the same sentence lauding a fighter who recieved no less than three gift draws in title fights.

So I take it youve never seen that fight. Because Giardello (who by many accounts, including historian JJ Johnson who was there, state that Giardello was robbed in their Chicago bout) put on a masterful performance and clearly won the title from Tiger. It was a performance which earned him the Fighter of the Year award from Ring Magazine. They dont hand those out to guys who win unsatisfactory robberies.

As I stated above, that victory you put so much faith in came via a one point margin with five rounds judged even in Mullers hometown. I hardly call that revenge for getting knocked out dramatically in two rounds when your promoter hasnt tied Giardello's hands behind his back. But hey, Giardello is the the former champion in the Hall of Fame. Mueller will never be able to boast that. And yes, Muller was KNOCKED OUT three times in two rounds by Giardello five years earlier. Go back and read the accounts.

Who cares if he beat Folledo or if Folledo was undefeated! Folledo had never fought anyone with a pulse. He was nothing. Period. Its debateable about whether Giardello lost to worse fighters than Christensen but whats not debateable is that Giardello beat better fighters than Christensen and better fighters than Papp. Thats how that works. It would be one thing if Giardello had lost to a bunch of nobodys and had never beaten any somebodys. Then your criticism might be valid. But while Giardello had some low points in his career he also fought and defeated a much higher level of competition than either Papp or Christensen. Christensen for example lost to the best guys he faced every time out of the gate. Hence, he was simply not at a world class level. Even Papp struggled with some of his limited opposition, getting three draws in his short career and having trouble with a totally shot Sandy and Mick Leahy who was nothing special. Giardello has several wins over guys who were far better than best guys Christensen and Papp beat. Thats a fact.

If a guy lives in a soviet state and benefits from a soviet style amateur career which gives him all of the advantages of said career my point stands. Dont get made because you flew off the handle and wanted to claim that Hungary was not a soviet controlled puppet state. It was. Papp was part of that, he benefitted from it as an amateur and you can just deal with it.

You are talking about amateur fights. Ive already stated. I dont give two shits about his amateur career as it pertains his standing as an all time great professional. His amateur career means exactly NOTHING in regards to his standing as an all time great fighter. Pluck him from the amateurs at his best point and match him with any number of professional boxers and he gets his ass kicked. Period. And thats fine because he was an AMATEUR. But dont come on here as you always do and claim that he was somehow a great pro simply by virtue of the fact that he was a great amateur. It doesnt work like that.

Again, who gives a **** about an amateur title. Ask any amateur if hed rather be amateur world HW champion or simply the HW champion of the world and tell me what they say. Not a single one would choose amateur. If he would hes ******ed. As for the European championship which you keep on saying "is the second most prestigious title." No, dont pretend that the European championship has somehow nudged its way into the relevance on the world stage. It didnt. Its a regional title. Do you know why Americans dont get excited about the NABF title? Because it doesnt mean anything. There is only one title that means anything and thats the THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. There is THE championship and then way way WAY down the ladder is everything else. Dont act like Papp beating a bunch of nobodies to win a European title somehow makes him something because there have been some god awful European champions. In fact I would argue the majority of them have been fairly weak in terms of world class ability.

Well now wait a minute. This is back tracking. You said that Papp was Giardello's mandatory. The Ring magazine isnt a sanctioning body. They have no more control over who gets a title shot than you or I and their OPINION means about as much as well. In fact, I have often called into question Fleischer's rating of foreign fighters that most of the time he had never seen as questionable for the simple fact that I was told personally by his son in law Nat Loubet that Ring routinely rated and featured otherwise undeserving foreign fighters simply to make the magazine more marketable abroad. BUT with that all having been said you are wrong. Papp was not rated #1 by Ring when he was on the verge of a title shot. I pulled the Ring magazines for those months and the ratings were:

Giardello
1. Archer
2. Tiger
3. Carter
4. Papp

Identical to the WBA rankings which had much greater influence in dictating who got a title shot. So you are wrong on this count and several others: Papp was never rated #1, he was never Giardello's mandatory, he was never passed over for a title shot, and the Ring did not have him rated at #1 and even if they did that wouldnt have meant he was Giardello's mandatory. You can admit you are wrong right here and save yourself the embarrassment.

 

Your english is so bad I dont even know what this is supposed to mean. You can BELIEVE or HOPE that Papp would have been just as successful against Torres in the pros as he was as an amateur but dont pretend that he didnt have a massive advantage over Torres in the amateurs. He did.

I guess in your mind that makes it ok that he got brutally knocked out. You are certainly full of excuses.

Folledo was a total nobody on the world stage, unranked as a top contender, and lost to the best fighters he faced. Thats not even a fact that can be disputed. He was a better bullfighter than a boxer and he wasnt a mandatory for Benvenuti anyway, they fought for the vacant title that Papp had vacated. Its sad that I know more about European boxing than you do.

 

What the **** are you talking about? The IBU title? That fight was for the NBA title, not the IBU. The NBA was one of the most influential sanctioning bodies in the history of this sport. You clearly, once again, have no clue what you are talking about. Stribling had earned his shot at the title with a succession of wins over touted contenders like Phil Scott which was an elimination bout for a title fight after Scott had controversially lost to Jack Sharkey on what he claimed was a foul disallowed by the referee. Stribling took this fight in Scotts backyard and knocked him out in two rounds in front of 45,000 people. This was a huge win for Stribling and many were calling him the heavyweight champion after this fight. Otto Von Porat who just two months previous had been featured on the cover of Ring Magazine and who held wins over Tom Heeney, Tuffy Griffiths who had wins over Uzcudan, Risko, and Heeney, among lower tier wins against guys like De Kuh and Christner. That fight that you are painting as an undeserving one sided shutout was called the fight of the year. Think about that for a moment. Do you really think they name one sided 15 round fights the fight of the year? George Barton, one of the greatest boxing authorities alive at the time had Stribling up 7 rounds to three after the tenth. I havent read an account yet which gave Schmeling ANY of the first five rounds. And as you stated yourself Stribling ruled a favorite until right before the fight. As I tried to educate you earlier on betting oddsmakers arent in the habit of throwing their money away so that tells you there was a very strong feeling based on the relative record of both fighters that Stribling was a threat to the HW title. When you can show me that Papp would have ruled the same threat to Giardello we can talk but the fact is that Papp never beat any of the many highly rated opponents that Stribling had defeated.

 

OMG .The Christians v The Lions . Result the Lions 3-0!

 

These are your exact words:
"Papp was number 1 challenger for the WBC (NYSAC)" So yes, you did say that, and you were wrong.

You are wrong. Papp was never rated #1 by Ring magazine. Its true that after Carter lost to Giardello Papp took the #3 spot in the Ring rankings but he was never rated #1 and simply being rated #1 by a magazine doesnt make you a mandatory. The Ring didnt dictate who got title shots.

I like how YEARS is "shortly" to you. They share three common opponents Sandy, who Giardello beat and Papp beat 6 years later in one of Sandys last fights. Tiger Jones who Giardello beat 2 out of 3 fights and Papp beat 3 years later in Jones' last fight, and Muller who Giardello knocked out and lost a hometown decision to who Papp fought the following year less than two months after Muller had been knocked out by the legendary Heinrich Freytag. Dont even compare Papp's record to Giardellos, it does Papp no favors. Giardello beat hall of famers. Papp struggled to beat guys who might not even be in their hometown hall of fame.

You arent going to get anyone to believe that Folledo was ever a better contender than Fernandez. You can focus on defeats all you want but the fact is that Folledo (and Papp) has so few defeats because he rarely stepped up his competition. You notice how every time he stepped up he lost. That says something. I'll take a guy who proved he could fight with the best fighters in the world on even terms but lost sometimes over a guy who was protected in his hometown 98% of the time and lost every fight every time he stepped up.

Nonsense. Where is the evidence that Giardello got any help at all from the mob? You need to go back to watching shitty Hollywood movies like Hurricane which is apparently where you got all of your bad information. Ive seen all of those fights in their entirety, unlike you, and Giardello won them all. He got robbed against Fullmer (who couldnt lose a fight in the West if he tried) and was the deserved victor over both Tiger and Carter. Hell, Carter even admitted he blew it. Nice try son but you dont know what youre talking about.

Then by all means, please, show us all of your evidence. Because you can look at Giardellos record and see that the mob wasnt doing him any favors. Plenty of fighters worse than him got title shots in the decade it took for him to get one. The reason he kept climbing back up the ratings was that even when he would lose he would continue to beat contenders and stay in the rankings. Mob fighters dont have to continually claw their way back into contention like Giardello did.

Youre either blind or the translation program youre using to speak English is broken because dominate isnt a word you can apply to Ziggys running in any round.

No, simply being a great amateur does NOT mean you can be ranked with professionals. Thats nonsense. I dont care if you have 1000 successful three round fights you are not going to convince me or anyone else that you can go and beat all of the guys who were contenders and champions over 10, 12, or 15 rounds. Thats nonsense. And quit claiming Bubi Scholz is one of the greatest middleweights. Its embarrassing. Even by your twisted logic he did nothing to earn such a compliment. The best fighter he fought at MW was Charles ****ing Humez who was nothing special and it took him two tries to beat him and only did so in Humez last fight, the first time around he got his ass royally kicked by Humez.

 

Hungary wasn't a Soviet state?!?
That must have been why tens of thousands of Russian troops didn't invade the country after the 1956 Revolution to reimpose control.

 

The man's a total k**b!

 

Get back to the Circus you clown!

 

It was a satellite state of the Soviet Union end of, a fact of history.
You don't just re-write boxing history, well, just history.

 

You do if you're this muppet!

 

Again, you can deny deny deny all you want but its a fact that Giardello's arrangements were handled by the promoter, which is common, particularly in that era because how the hell is Giardello going to book his own hotel, arrange for sparring, find a gym etc 6000 miles from home in a foreign country where he doesnt speak the language? But you go on speaking from ignorance like youve been doing all along.

I never said Ali outclassed Ziggy did I? In fact I said the first round was close and I wouldnt argue too hard with anyone who said Ziggy took it even if I didnt agree. However, Ziggy clearly lost rounds 2 and 3, he was clearly on the defensive for the entire fight, he landed fewer punchers, he took more damage, etc. He lost. Deal with it. Trying to pretend that he won in order to further pump up your hero is pathetic.

I dont care about Tyson and Holyfield. That has nothing to do with Giardello-Fullmer. I also dont care what "the press" (the card which you report originating from Fullmers backyard newspaper) had to say. I can watch the entire film myself and judge, unlike you who is simply talking out of his ass when he says "Giardellos headbutt was more malicious." You have no clue because youve never seen that fight. Period. Dont lie and say you did because it has never been released and my copy comes straight from Fullmer's manager Marv Jensen.

Again, another lie. The decision in the Tiger fight was not booed. In fact it was well received. The film doesnt lie. Neither did Jack Cuddy who covered the fight from ringside: "The crowd of 13,000 in the huge Atlantic City Auditorium shook the rafters with its cheers when the referee Paul Cavaliere's decision was announced in favor of a streamlined Giardello."

Should we now take a roll call of all the lies youve told in order to further your agenda?

Pac did not get fighter of the year 2011. He got fighter of the year in 2007,08, and 09. The only one of those years he fought Marquez was in 08 when he won a close SD. Close fights are not robberies. Period. However, in addition to beating Marquez he also beat David Diaz for the lightweight title and Oscar De La Hoya. His fights generated 100 million $ that year and in addition to the Ring calling him fighter of the year so did ESPN, the BWAA, and Sports Illustrated. So once again, wrong on all points. As usual.

Muller was 3 years older than Giardello, not five. Nice try but every time you lie Im going to call you out on it and make you look stupid. Furthermore, Muller may have been older, he may have had more fights, but Giardello had been fighting at a much higher level of opposition than Muller for over a decade. You tend to take more punishment and age faster under such circumstances. However, that being said, when Mullers promoter sabotages Giardello in Mullers hometown and the best Muller can do is win by a single point then yes, I can with a straight face say that Giardellos hands were tied behind his back and against Muller, and when Muller didnt have those advantages Giardello didnt need a puny 1 point margin of victory. He decimated Muller. I dont have problem with Giardello losing to guys like Hank and Dupas both of those guys were legitimate contenders, one was a fantastic boxer and the other was a dynamite brawler. Both would have kicked the living **** out of Muller as well. Or rather they would if Mullers promoter wasnt playing games to protect his fighter.

Papp didnt dominate Sandy. He had problems with Sandy, who was totally shot. The only reason Papp was undefeated was because he was so protected. The guy fought nobody with a pulse. Had he fought Sandy when Giardello did SIX FULL YEARS EARLIER he would have lost. In beating Tiger, Fullmer, Graham, Giambra, Turner, Hank, and Rivero he beat fighters who were far far better than Papp ever proved to be as a professional. All of those guys fought far tougher competition than Papp and won. Papp never did that.

You are living in a fantasy world. I cant figure out if all of these lies you tell are deliberate or because you are just stupid.

 

Bull****. You consistently rank unproven guys like Papp in the all time rankings with professionals based on their amateur experience. That is no comparison. As I said, I dont care if you take the best Papp that ever existed as an amateur and tacked on another 1000 wins to his record he still didnt prove that he could be ranked over or even with guys like Robinson, Giardello, Fullmer, Greb, Ketchel, or even guys like Torres, Fernandez, Webb, or Gil Turner? Why? Because those guys actually competed at the highest level of the professional game proving themselves over 10, 12 or 15 rounds. Papp NEVER did that. Not even as a pro. The best he did was win a regional title. He proved that he could beat third rate European fighters and totally washed up American fighters. He never once beat a rated contender and thats where the game starts getting interesting. Thats where we start getting questions answered about your ability and character and Papp never did that. So dont come on here and claim that he was one of the best fighters in the deepest division in history.

Nobody gave two shits about the IBU title and nobody gives two shits about the EBU title. Again, you can pretend this means something because some of your heros won it but at the end of the day the fact that guys like Scholz and Papp won that title doesnt mean dick outside of Europe. When we rank greatness we rank it on the world stage. We dont rank it based on four rounds. We dont rank it based on whether you were the best guy in ONE part of the world. We just rank greatness and guys like Papp and Scholz never EVER showed the world that they deserve to be ranked with the great middleweights of all time. Papp because he was unproven and Scholz because he simply wasnt that good.

No they didnt. Giardello was the WBA champion. The WBC was barely even rolling at this point and had zero influence or credibility. The Rings belt was nothing more than an honorary title and its ratings had no influence on who got or deserved a title shot.

Why? What does that have to do with anything? You tried to make the comment that Stribling didnt earn his shot and then somehow (Im not even sure your point) tried to tie that to Papp. The fact is that Stribling had earned his title shot and the high regard in which he was held by the public is reflected by the fact that he was favorite until right before the fight. So again, you were wrong and you got called out on it.

Listen dumbass. You keep coming on here lying. Bold faced lying that Papp was rated #1 and was a mandatory. He was not. Period. If you think he was rated #1 by the WBA, the only rankings that matter, then by all means grab a ****ing magazine and post a screenshot of the ratings. We both know you wont because as I type this Im sitting next to a stack of Boxing Illustrated from 1964-65 which every month printed the most up to date WBA rankings and Papp never reached #1 before he retired. NEVER. He was never Giardello's mandatory. He was never passed over. You either are lying about this or your too stupid to know. Your insistence at repeating this myth is ridiculous. As for Archer he didnt hit his losing streak until after Papp had retired so he retained his #1 until after Papp retired.

 

Far more important than what? Nobody would rather be an Olympic boxing champion than a professional world champion. Thats an ignorant statement. The championship of the world is the pinnacle of the sport.

Thats a debateable point at best but the fact remains that Giardello beat better fighters than Folledo beat, he beat better fighters than Folledo ever was, and Folledo never beat anyone remotely as good as Giardello. Thats why Giardello and not Folledo became a champion and HOFer.

No, you said Folledo was Benvenutis mandatory. He wasnt. Benvenuti was a younger, smaller, with less experience and when Folledo fought him he came in almost six pounds over the weight limit looking like a bodybuilder and got knocked out. Like I said, he was not world class. Benvenuti was. Benvenuti kicked his ass just like every other fighter who was even remotely world class and some who werent. See, unlike you Ive seen that fight. I can watch it and I can tell you all about it. I dont have to imagine it. I can watch Benvenuti splatter Folledo over the ring ropes like the mediocre bum he was:

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Nonsense. Nobody considers Young Stribling a light heavyweight champion. Your ridiculous adherence to these fringe titles just to support your argument is a joke. You also have no clue, obviously, what the NYSAC or the NBA were.

Typical, if you dont agree with it try to discredit it. LOL. You must have attended Trump University. Facts are inconvenient things to liars.

What exactly does Cuba or Vietnam have to do with your bizarre belief that Hungary wasnt a soviet puppet state, or rather that Papp wasnt part of a soviet puppet state?

And you were WRONG just admit it. Papp was not Giardellos mandatory or ever even his #1. Just admit you were wrong.

If I misinterpret what you say its because my dog speaks better english.

 

Couple of points: 1. It was a hometown decision if in Mullers hometown Mullers promoter created a situation whereby the match was not even or fought on its merits but Giardello was also at a disadvantage. You seem to have trouble understanding that. 2. Giardello lost 4 out of five fights nearly THREE years before he got a title shot. He lost those fights to three top contenders, one of whom won the title 7 months later, another who was acknowledged as one of the best boxers in the country and who the following year would challenge for the WW title and 2 years later would win the LMW title, and another contender consider one of the hardest punchers in the division who held wins over several other contenders and who would go toe to toe with some of the top fighters in three divisions of the next decade without disgracing himself (and this loss was avenged). Then you have his loss to Peter Muller which sticks out like a sore thumb given the fact that Muller had never been able to compete at that level, the fact that it took place in Mullers hometown, and the fact that Giardello had easily kicked the living **** out of Muller in their previous outing. If you want to point the finger at behind the scenes influence to win a fight then point at Muller and his promoter. As to why he got a title shot its simple. He fought a title eliminator with Sugar Ray Robinson and won. At the time he was already rated #4 by virtue of his fight of the year with Henry Hank and his victory over Robinson, who had been tabbed to fight Tiger propelled him into Robinsons shot as the underdog and he made the most of it.

Fernandez didnt challenge for the European championship because he wasnt ****ing European you clown! He was a cuban who fought out of Florida.

You keep mentioning this big conspiracy where is your proof? Where is your evidence? Giardello could have easily been given a shot YEARS earlier when he was much closer to his physical prime and much more of a threat if he had actually been mob controlled. If you cant provide any more evidence that Giardello got any of his wins and his title shots due to the mob than your ridiculous rantings then we can stop right here. Because thats just that, the imaginings of a lunatic.

I dont give two shits what the press said. The judges had it a draw and predictably the judge who voted for Fullmer and the one who called it a draw where both locals in Fullmers backyard. All Fullmer did was maul and clinch the entire fight while Giardello was actually boxing. I realise you have to enjoy mediocre boxing given your love of guys like Scholz and Muller but people who know what they are looking at and dont enter with inherent biases can see Giardello beat Fullmer.

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That had absolutely nothing to do with the Giardello fight. Like I said, even Carter admitted that he wasnt robbed in that fight.

He certainly never proved it in the ring.

ROBBED?!? Against Humez? LOL. Thats probably the funniest **** Ive ever seen you post and youve posted some silly ass ****. Scholz got his ass kicked by Humez in their first fight. Here is your hero getting bounced up and down like a yoyo by Humez. He spent most of the fight on the ropes and in the corners covering up and getting pounded. He lost VERY convincingly:

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Their second fight was very similar with Scholz on the defensive and being outlanded two to one but in this fight he managed to open a bad cut on Humez' eyebrow and Humez quit. Sorry to burst your bubble but once again, I have both of these fights and dont need to take the word of lying morons like you.

No whats nonsense is ranking a man who has spent his entire life fighting boys and has never gone over 3 rounds with professionals. Thats whats nonsense.

 

It's extremely difficult to imagine that he will attempt to refute these stone cold facts but we know he will. I think his lack of English actually works as a smokescreen!