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[Video] Laszlo Papp - 3x Olympic Gold Medalist

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by haNZAgod, Jan 31, 2017.



  1. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again, you can deny deny deny all you want but its a fact that Giardello's arrangements were handled by the promoter, which is common, particularly in that era because how the hell is Giardello going to book his own hotel, arrange for sparring, find a gym etc 6000 miles from home in a foreign country where he doesnt speak the language? But you go on speaking from ignorance like youve been doing all along.

    I never said Ali outclassed Ziggy did I? In fact I said the first round was close and I wouldnt argue too hard with anyone who said Ziggy took it even if I didnt agree. However, Ziggy clearly lost rounds 2 and 3, he was clearly on the defensive for the entire fight, he landed fewer punchers, he took more damage, etc. He lost. Deal with it. Trying to pretend that he won in order to further pump up your hero is pathetic.

    I dont care about Tyson and Holyfield. That has nothing to do with Giardello-Fullmer. I also dont care what "the press" (the card which you report originating from Fullmers backyard newspaper) had to say. I can watch the entire film myself and judge, unlike you who is simply talking out of his ass when he says "Giardellos headbutt was more malicious." You have no clue because youve never seen that fight. Period. Dont lie and say you did because it has never been released and my copy comes straight from Fullmer's manager Marv Jensen.

    Again, another lie. The decision in the Tiger fight was not booed. In fact it was well received. The film doesnt lie. Neither did Jack Cuddy who covered the fight from ringside: "The crowd of 13,000 in the huge Atlantic City Auditorium shook the rafters with its cheers when the referee Paul Cavaliere's decision was announced in favor of a streamlined Giardello."

    Should we now take a roll call of all the lies youve told in order to further your agenda?


    Pac did not get fighter of the year 2011. He got fighter of the year in 2007,08, and 09. The only one of those years he fought Marquez was in 08 when he won a close SD. Close fights are not robberies. Period. However, in addition to beating Marquez he also beat David Diaz for the lightweight title and Oscar De La Hoya. His fights generated 100 million $ that year and in addition to the Ring calling him fighter of the year so did ESPN, the BWAA, and Sports Illustrated. So once again, wrong on all points. As usual.



    Muller was 3 years older than Giardello, not five. Nice try but every time you lie Im going to call you out on it and make you look stupid. Furthermore, Muller may have been older, he may have had more fights, but Giardello had been fighting at a much higher level of opposition than Muller for over a decade. You tend to take more punishment and age faster under such circumstances. However, that being said, when Mullers promoter sabotages Giardello in Mullers hometown and the best Muller can do is win by a single point then yes, I can with a straight face say that Giardellos hands were tied behind his back and against Muller, and when Muller didnt have those advantages Giardello didnt need a puny 1 point margin of victory. He decimated Muller. I dont have problem with Giardello losing to guys like Hank and Dupas both of those guys were legitimate contenders, one was a fantastic boxer and the other was a dynamite brawler. Both would have kicked the living **** out of Muller as well. Or rather they would if Mullers promoter wasnt playing games to protect his fighter.

    Papp didnt dominate Sandy. He had problems with Sandy, who was totally shot. The only reason Papp was undefeated was because he was so protected. The guy fought nobody with a pulse. Had he fought Sandy when Giardello did SIX FULL YEARS EARLIER he would have lost. In beating Tiger, Fullmer, Graham, Giambra, Turner, Hank, and Rivero he beat fighters who were far far better than Papp ever proved to be as a professional. All of those guys fought far tougher competition than Papp and won. Papp never did that.

    You are living in a fantasy world. I cant figure out if all of these lies you tell are deliberate or because you are just stupid.
     
  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bull****. You consistently rank unproven guys like Papp in the all time rankings with professionals based on their amateur experience. That is no comparison. As I said, I dont care if you take the best Papp that ever existed as an amateur and tacked on another 1000 wins to his record he still didnt prove that he could be ranked over or even with guys like Robinson, Giardello, Fullmer, Greb, Ketchel, or even guys like Torres, Fernandez, Webb, or Gil Turner? Why? Because those guys actually competed at the highest level of the professional game proving themselves over 10, 12 or 15 rounds. Papp NEVER did that. Not even as a pro. The best he did was win a regional title. He proved that he could beat third rate European fighters and totally washed up American fighters. He never once beat a rated contender and thats where the game starts getting interesting. Thats where we start getting questions answered about your ability and character and Papp never did that. So dont come on here and claim that he was one of the best fighters in the deepest division in history.

    Nobody gave two ****s about the IBU title and nobody gives two ****s about the EBU title. Again, you can pretend this means something because some of your heros won it but at the end of the day the fact that guys like Scholz and Papp won that title doesnt mean **** outside of Europe. When we rank greatness we rank it on the world stage. We dont rank it based on four rounds. We dont rank it based on whether you were the best guy in ONE part of the world. We just rank greatness and guys like Papp and Scholz never EVER showed the world that they deserve to be ranked with the great middleweights of all time. Papp because he was unproven and Scholz because he simply wasnt that good.

    No they didnt. Giardello was the WBA champion. The WBC was barely even rolling at this point and had zero influence or credibility. The Rings belt was nothing more than an honorary title and its ratings had no influence on who got or deserved a title shot.



    Why? What does that have to do with anything? You tried to make the comment that Stribling didnt earn his shot and then somehow (Im not even sure your point) tried to tie that to Papp. The fact is that Stribling had earned his title shot and the high regard in which he was held by the public is reflected by the fact that he was favorite until right before the fight. So again, you were wrong and you got called out on it.

    Listen dumbass. You keep coming on here lying. Bold faced lying that Papp was rated #1 and was a mandatory. He was not. Period. If you think he was rated #1 by the WBA, the only rankings that matter, then by all means grab a ****ing magazine and post a screenshot of the ratings. We both know you wont because as I type this Im sitting next to a stack of Boxing Illustrated from 1964-65 which every month printed the most up to date WBA rankings and Papp never reached #1 before he retired. NEVER. He was never Giardello's mandatory. He was never passed over. You either are lying about this or your too stupid to know. Your insistence at repeating this myth is ridiculous. As for Archer he didnt hit his losing streak until after Papp had retired so he retained his #1 until after Papp retired.
     
  3. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Far more important than what? Nobody would rather be an Olympic boxing champion than a professional world champion. Thats an ignorant statement. The championship of the world is the pinnacle of the sport.




    Thats a debateable point at best but the fact remains that Giardello beat better fighters than Folledo beat, he beat better fighters than Folledo ever was, and Folledo never beat anyone remotely as good as Giardello. Thats why Giardello and not Folledo became a champion and HOFer.

    No, you said Folledo was Benvenutis mandatory. He wasnt. Benvenuti was a younger, smaller, with less experience and when Folledo fought him he came in almost six pounds over the weight limit looking like a bodybuilder and got knocked out. Like I said, he was not world class. Benvenuti was. Benvenuti kicked his ass just like every other fighter who was even remotely world class and some who werent. See, unlike you Ive seen that fight. I can watch it and I can tell you all about it. I dont have to imagine it. I can watch Benvenuti splatter Folledo over the ring ropes like the mediocre bum he was:

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    Nonsense. Nobody considers Young Stribling a light heavyweight champion. Your ridiculous adherence to these fringe titles just to support your argument is a joke. You also have no clue, obviously, what the NYSAC or the NBA were.

    Typical, if you dont agree with it try to discredit it. LOL. You must have attended Trump University. Facts are inconvenient things to liars.


    What exactly does Cuba or Vietnam have to do with your bizarre belief that Hungary wasnt a soviet puppet state, or rather that Papp wasnt part of a soviet puppet state?


    And you were WRONG just admit it. Papp was not Giardellos mandatory or ever even his #1. Just admit you were wrong.


    If I misinterpret what you say its because my dog speaks better english.
     
  4. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Couple of points: 1. It was a hometown decision if in Mullers hometown Mullers promoter created a situation whereby the match was not even or fought on its merits but Giardello was also at a disadvantage. You seem to have trouble understanding that. 2. Giardello lost 4 out of five fights nearly THREE years before he got a title shot. He lost those fights to three top contenders, one of whom won the title 7 months later, another who was acknowledged as one of the best boxers in the country and who the following year would challenge for the WW title and 2 years later would win the LMW title, and another contender consider one of the hardest punchers in the division who held wins over several other contenders and who would go toe to toe with some of the top fighters in three divisions of the next decade without disgracing himself (and this loss was avenged). Then you have his loss to Peter Muller which sticks out like a sore thumb given the fact that Muller had never been able to compete at that level, the fact that it took place in Mullers hometown, and the fact that Giardello had easily kicked the living **** out of Muller in their previous outing. If you want to point the finger at behind the scenes influence to win a fight then point at Muller and his promoter. As to why he got a title shot its simple. He fought a title eliminator with Sugar Ray Robinson and won. At the time he was already rated #4 by virtue of his fight of the year with Henry Hank and his victory over Robinson, who had been tabbed to fight Tiger propelled him into Robinsons shot as the underdog and he made the most of it.

    Fernandez didnt challenge for the European championship because he wasnt ****ing European you clown! He was a cuban who fought out of Florida.

    You keep mentioning this big conspiracy where is your proof? Where is your evidence? Giardello could have easily been given a shot YEARS earlier when he was much closer to his physical prime and much more of a threat if he had actually been mob controlled. If you cant provide any more evidence that Giardello got any of his wins and his title shots due to the mob than your ridiculous rantings then we can stop right here. Because thats just that, the imaginings of a lunatic.

    I dont give two ****s what the press said. The judges had it a draw and predictably the judge who voted for Fullmer and the one who called it a draw where both locals in Fullmers backyard. All Fullmer did was maul and clinch the entire fight while Giardello was actually boxing. I realise you have to enjoy mediocre boxing given your love of guys like Scholz and Muller but people who know what they are looking at and dont enter with inherent biases can see Giardello beat Fullmer.

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    That had absolutely nothing to do with the Giardello fight. Like I said, even Carter admitted that he wasnt robbed in that fight.

    He certainly never proved it in the ring.

    ROBBED?!? Against Humez? LOL. Thats probably the funniest **** Ive ever seen you post and youve posted some silly ass ****. Scholz got his ass kicked by Humez in their first fight. Here is your hero getting bounced up and down like a yoyo by Humez. He spent most of the fight on the ropes and in the corners covering up and getting pounded. He lost VERY convincingly:

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    Their second fight was very similar with Scholz on the defensive and being outlanded two to one but in this fight he managed to open a bad cut on Humez' eyebrow and Humez quit. Sorry to burst your bubble but once again, I have both of these fights and dont need to take the word of lying morons like you.


    No whats nonsense is ranking a man who has spent his entire life fighting boys and has never gone over 3 rounds with professionals. Thats whats nonsense.
     
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's extremely difficult to imagine that he will attempt to refute these stone cold facts but we know he will. I think his lack of English actually works as a smokescreen!
     
  6. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    I never denied it was, who did? Read the discusion or just what I have quoted idiot!

    There was pretended that Hungary was a part of the Soviet Union, which is simply not true (it is a difference to be controlled by it or to be member). East-Germany, Poland and the CSFR were that too. You Yankees and Tommies have just no clue about history and re-write it, that's fact!

    Yugoslavia under Tito was also partner of the Warsaw contract, but was very opposite to the UdSSR (Breshnew and Chrustschow). I was even not allowed at some time to travel from other socialistic states to it, as they allowed to go to capitalism foreign countries from there.

    Even to Hungarian money doesn't sound Slavic and there language isn't this too.
     
  7. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    In West-Germany didn't speak anyone English, particular in the hotels? Commons how can you be that dumb? Not only were there many American and British soldiers, but also tourists from all over the world. You make yourself just ridiculous as you did before (for instance about Hungary as Soviet state). There was by the way an new intervention called "phone", which was just created about eight decades before the fight (while previous the telegraphe as well), and tele-fax existed most likely too and he could also use the post...

    You did of course, shall I quote it ("outclassed him in any of the 5 rounds")? I never denied that he lost 1 - 2 rounds clearly, but also one for him was it and the rest was about even.

    Maybe I was in the audience or know someone who was it (and filmed with a Super-8 camera)? Whatsoever I never claimed it did...

    The pressmen reported there was booed and the film probably didn't focus all sounds, due to the old techniques which were used (it could be even from the places behind or the opposite side of the hall).

    I never claimed he was 5 years older, did I? Learn to read! It was probably about the Scholz vs. Müller fights (which were five years previous) or something. You have many excuses for Giardello (the decisions he received), what you acuse me to have for Papp... It was maybe for the American just one point, for the unbiased were it more (as Müller, not Muller or Moller, dominated from round 7 till the end). Müller was not that important for his promoter to protect him or play ganes, due to he was rather just a high-class journeyman. If he would have been, he didn't have that many defeats of course.

    The decision in 2011 was a robbery; then was he maybe at place two (behind Mayweather) then, but nothing less canidate for this award, despite the unfair decision in his favour. While to win against David Diaz doesn't mean much (also vs. over the hill de la Hoya, who fought the first time at Welterweight since 8 years).

    The draws Papp received were in the backyards of his opponents (unlike Giardello, who lost mainly on foreign soil and his draws were rather at home), what you didn't mention (for a good reason); which means these were mostly robberies. He was far less protected than Giardello was, as he was used to fight at the opponents home. While Sandy had even after the victory over Giardello some notable wins.
     
  8. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    As I had maintained the level of competition at the amateurs was far higher (also than the professionals), if you had read it.
    He's a lot better than Giardello and Fullmer, even just at Middleweight; while these guys have almost nothing earned as amateurs (even Papps achievement as prize-boxer is greater than anything they had done as amateurs), that's a matter of fact. Four-rounders just mean amateur bouts (which were more often over 5 * 2 minutes).

    While he was proven over 10 and 12 rounds. The European championship was higher regarded than some current world titles (like WBA regular stuff, interims titles or the WBO not long ago) and had just one title-holder. It wasn't of course a regional title, as these are meant in boxing something like North- or South-England championship, IBF-Pan-Pazifik or WBA & WBO Asia-Pazifik or Eurasia nonsense among others. It is a continental title, which means for instance in football a lot.
    While he was of course at world stage in the Olympic Games (which he won three times in row).

    Giardello held also the NYSAC title (while it was rather the NBA than the WBA). So first you allege Papp wasn't at the top of the Ring Magazine rankings and now are these just not important anymore for that time?

    Striblin earned it by a padded record, as he barely had fought any Heavyweight contender (against Charles as later), as he had a lot worse opponents which than Papp has fought. But as I stated, I actual rank him high (in the top fourty, possible 35 of all time).
     
  9. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    it wasn't at all, as home-town decision means in boxing by general definition, that the judges scored it very unfair in the way to the local fighter, which they didn't (as he wasn't important to do such). While Giardello got rather paid judges by the Mafia (vs. Carter and probably Tiger among others). That it was such different the second time, just means Müller (due to the circumstance of the first one) was betetr prepared or Giardello wasn't that good anymore. Maybe was he here once able to compete at it (if it was his best performance) or Giardello was not at this level just as (if he was it the first time) or Peter Müller picked him up at the right time in their rematch. But who didn't win against any notable opponent, after these four defeats, so how did he earn his second world title shot (if not by the assistance of the Mafia)?

    He just didn't get it earlier, as he was in average-joe and had even with the help of the Mafia already mandy defeats. While Fullmer only clinched after the mentioned headbutt in round 4, before he boxed (and I think you even had previous stated that). From the independant newspapers had one score a draw and the other for Fullmer. Well Müller was mediocre, but Scholz was world class, even when he was fadded and over his natural weight, was he competitve with Light-Heavyweight champion Johnson.

    What shall this prove to publish some photos without motion? Maybe was Scholz pushed to the canvas several time, so what. It took place in Paris, while in the second was he totally demolished, while there was he mainly in the defence and all cuts were caused by punches, that his face got like a bloody mess, similar as Arreola and Sanders got by Klitschko or Willard by Dempsey. This was one of the most brutal one-sided beatings. He quit like Cerdan did vs. La Motta (for a good cause).
     
  10. Cecil

    Cecil Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ra's lad, you've suffered probably the biggest beat down in the history of the ESB, just try now to retire gracefully, i'm not saying try to cut your losses, because you went way beyond that stage ages ago.
    You've been schooled Willie Pep style and battered Rocky Marciano style.
    Give in lad.
     
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  11. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    First it is not true; many would prefer Olympic gold (especially there's only one in opposite to professional titles), but you won't understand this as you are too biased and fixed to your view (as you got teached it when you grew up/ due to propaganda). The second is it wasn't about this at all; learn to read! It was about the Papp vs. Pietrykowky fights, as he won at the Olympic Games and the other one was far less meaningful.

    It's also because Giardello was more supported than Folledo, not only by criminals but also was his promoter a lot more powerful.

    Benvenuti and Folledo were the highest ranked boxer there; so if the first one would have been already title-holder, then it is a mandatory defence. Benvenuti was also better than Giardello was (he's arguable the best Italian boxer of all time).

    Young Stribling was of course recognized by the IBU as Light-Heavyweight champion, like Georges Carpentier was before, who was regarded as it in general. Most European boxers fought for this (Schmeling won it even after the second Louis fight in the Heavyweight), while Americans for the NBA and NYSAC usually. But the first one was just created in 1921.

    It seems you are closer to a Trump-voter (as your boyfriend McVey admitted even that he voted for the Brexit). While I didn't decridit anything, as it are facts that Stribling didn't win more than 5 rounds in the entire fight and I have watched it several time, just as the reports (from American journalists) are unanimous the same, but he was leading on the scorecards of the judges at his home (while he was favoured here too). But imagination appears you only eduaction.

    That American tried invasions there too, like the Soviet Union did in Hungary 1956. You didn't write puppet state, but you pretend that Hungary was part of the Soviet Union, which is quite a difference, fact!

    Most people are able to understand my English, but if you aren't, then let conversate in German (if you are not too dumb for it).
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "The draws Papp received were in the backyards of his opponents (unlike Giardello, who lost mainly on foreign soil and his draws were rather at home), what you didn't mention (for a good reason); which means these were mostly robberies."

    The Ring, March 1961, reported:

    Milan, Italy. THe oft- postponed middles clash between Ginacarlo Garbelli and the Hungarian veteran Laszlo Papp, finally took place at the Sports Palace where some 12,000 fans crowded in to watch the Mysterious Hungarian display his prowess. Since Papp must get the sanction of Hungarian authorities for every fight he accepts, it is always problematical whether he will arrive.

    In Garbelli he clashed with a fighter built on his own lines- stocky, two- fisted and aggressive. Garbelli was not bothered by the Hungarian's south paw stance, nor fame as knockout puncher. He went right in to action from the first gong and kept up the pace until the end of the bout. The Swiss ref,
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    , declared the result a draw but Garbelli appeared to have got the edge.

    Roll up! Roll up ! The circus is back in town!lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  13. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    Are you the sub-account of McVip?

    You elter folks are not able to judge who embarassed who, as you believe that Hungary was a part of the Soviet Union, nothing less did he allege, as I quoted this! Just as have you the heresy that professionals are in general better than amateur,s which is just bias and foolish, as there are enough examples for the opposite: In the world cup 1974 defeated the GDR the later champion West-Germany (while the first had all mebers an all-day jobs) among others. Just that you get money for it is no proof to be superior, it just means you don't have to work anything else. While in case of Papp and the athletes from socialistic countries in general, there were ideolical reason for, as espcially professional boxing had a dark reputation at that time (due to the influence of criminals and fixed fights), while it still is much show (maybe more that competition/ sports).
     
  14. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Comical. Every single point has been addressed, re-addressed, and proven to be false and/or lies. Tell us again how Papp was rated #1 and Giardello's mandatory, or how Fernandez wasnt good enough to be rated by the EBU for a European title shot. Or how Scholz was robbed against Humez, or Hungary wasnt a soviet puppet state, or how Stribling wasnt a legitimate HW contender, or how Carter and Tiger lost fixed fights to Giardello, or how Ziggy dominated Ali, or how Folledo was Benvenutis mandatory, I could keep going because almost every time you type something you display numerous errors. The only thing I cant figure out is if they are intentional (lies) or you are just ignorant. Regardless you are clearly living in your own little world and clearly havent seen most of the fights you choose to discuss. For instance, calling Humez-Scholz 2 a brutal beat down is comical. It was competitive from start to finish with Scholz content to sharpshoot with a straight left to counter Humez aggressive style. Humez landed many more punches than Scholz and kept Scholz on the ropes and in corners for most of the fight. Being that he landed more and was the aggressor had it gone to a decision anywhere but Germany (famous for some of the worst decisions of all time) Humez would have won. Scholz got lucky in cutting his eyebrow which prompted Humez to decide to call an end to his career. However, the punishment talked about on Boxrec is a myth. It was a single cut in a bad spot right on his eyebrow close to the center of his forehead which bled into the eye. As you can see below he suffered no more punishment and retired simply because he couldnt see with the blood running into his eye. Nice try clown but Humez wasnt brutalized in that fight. He was just old and once he got cut he decided that rather than take that punishment for three more rounds he would call his career over.

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    By comparison here he is almost 4 years earlier after knocking out Langlois. Doesnt look a whole lot different does he?

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    So much for the theory that Scholz rearranged his features and had him cut to ribbons. Like I said, facts are inconvenient things to liars.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is what Klompy said." As if Hungary wasnt a soviet puppet state at the time in question." And he is 100 % correct!
    The idea that it is heresy to say that professionals are in general better than amateurs,just illustrates what a total moron you are.

    Q Do you see anyone agreeing with your outlandish opinions?