[Video] The man who kept Tyson from being a top 10 ATG.

I don't see any similarity between the Lewis situation and Holmes. Lewis was a top contender when Tyson was still in his prime. Holmes prime ended circa 1983 before Tyson even turned pro.

 

Yes, losing to Smith cost Witherspoon that fight. Big time. Mike fought Bonecrusher on March 7, 1987. I remember it because it was later on at night on the same day Thomas Hearns beat Andries to win the 175 pound title in Detroit. Boxing was great then. A lot of good fights and a lot of excitement.

I think Mike would have had to stop Tim early like Bonecrusher did because had he not, it would have been a tough fight for Mike.
I don't know. For me I see it as a tossup and maybe leaning toward Tim. Tim knew how to use his size with speed, something different than many of the guys Tyson fought. I think Tim was better than the guys Tyson fought, and those guys were the top of the heavyweights in the 1980s. Spinks was better than Tim in the exception and so was Larry, but one was too old and the other too small, but I don't see Spinks outboxing Tim. I think the key to Mike beating Tim is bodypunching and Mike always did well there. Tim was just so big and he could hit. He was the best heavyweight Mike could have fought from 1986-1990 had Tim been in shape, but for Witherspoon to be in shape and top notch was questionable. He was the standard for 1980's heavyweights. Out of shape and inconsistent. Mike was different. He was always on until he beat Spinks. Then he started to slack off and fired Rooney and was in bed too much with King. Mike would have been best to stay active after Spinks because Mike not active was similar to Marvin Hagler not active. Their success was sort of about activity and sharpness. Even thought Mike and Marvin were very different. But Tim would have been motivated against Mike (I think) and it would have been very interesting seeing Mike in against a guy who would have fought bigger and not scared. The Bonecrusher fight against Tim did hurt Tim's resume since it was so unlike many of his other fights in that it rarely happened like that.

 

Personally i think Tyson would beat him pretty comfortably. Tim is a good fighter but he's become a bit overrated for me.

Boxing was certainly awesome then!!!

 

Very fair

 

I think a fit and motivated Witherspoon would have been Tyson's toughest fight mid to late eighties. But you would pick Tyson.

 

He could well be a tough fight but i can't see him winning no matter how i look at it.

 

I don't disagree.

 

Witherspoon was knocked out in 1 round against Smith and subsequently blackballed by Don King. If he actually beat Smith a Tyson vs Witherspoon fight would have happened.


As for the OP? Tyson is a lock for Top 10.

 

No he wasn't. Tyson lost the title to Douglas while Lewis was still fighting 6 rounders. And Holmes had some decent wins, and went 12 rounds with McCall and HolyField after Tyson KOed him.

I was mostly meaning because Tyson and Holmes were both way past it when their fights with Lewis and Tyson happened respectively. (In fairness Lewis was probably past his prime when he fought Tyson)

 

Epic fail! Are you 12 or something?

 

I believe Holyfield always beats him. I picked him in 89 after the Dokes fight, when this became the fight to make...,but one thing has nothing to go with the other. He is still top 10

 

Lewis turned down a career high (at the time) $13.5 million dollar OFFER FROM Tyson in 1996; apparently he preferred the step-aside money. Lewis has a tendency of turning down big fight offers; he did it with Bowe by rejecting 2 career high offers (at the time) for $11 million plus PPV, he did it with Mercer by rejecting a $20 million dollar rematch in 1997 and he did again against Vitaly Klitschko in 2003 when HBO offered him $20+ million for a rematch.

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/04/sports/boxing-bronchitis-stops-tyson-seldon-fight-is-off.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-07-21/sports/sp-15342_1_lennox-lewis

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/10/10/...s-mercer-tries-charity-for-lewis-rematch.html

As for your narrative what criteria do you actually use to rank the ATG Heavyweights? I use five:

1) Tenure as Champion
2) Quality of Opposition
3) Notable Loses/Omissions
4) Ability as a Fighter
5) Notable achievements/Records

I gotta say when you put Bob Fitzsimmons ahead of Mike Tyson I immediately knew that I can't take this seriously.

You put Liston ahead on the basis from 1958-1963 Liston was the most feared fighter and was likely spot on favorite to beat anyone in the division. Well Tyson was only an underdog in a fight once in his career, against Lennox Lewis. He was a favorite over Holyfield even in the rematch. He cleaned out his division and immediately came back after a 3+ year hiatus to rise to the top of the division picking up 2 titles in the process. Tyson was the benchmark fighter of his generation, fighters performance against Tyson were a barometer of their respective skillset or toughness.

You claim he was 0-3 against the best of his generation selectively choosing the fights he lost without factoring him that he also fought the great Larry Holmes and the undefeated Micheal Spinks.


But you said Liston ranks head. Fine.

Here is his resume:

Sonny Liston

1. Floyd Patterson 2X
2. Cleveland Williams 2X
3. Zora Folley
4. Roy Harris
5. Nino Valdez
6. Amos Johnson
7. Henry Clark
8. Chuck Wepner
9. George 'Scrap Iron' Johnson
10. Wayne Bethea
11. Mike Dejohn
12. Howard King
13. Willi Besamanoff
14. Bert Whitehurst
15. Albert Westphal

VS Tyson's resume:

Mike Tyson:

1) Micheal Spinks (Undefeated Lineal Champion)
2) Tony Tucker (Undefeated IBF Champion)
3) Razor Ruddock (#2 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies) X 2
4) Pinklon Thomas (Fmr WBC champ/#1 Rank WBC)
5) Larry Holmes (Fmr Lineal Champion)
6) Bonecrusher Smith (WBA Champion)
7) Frank Bruno (#2 Ranked All 3 Bodies/WBC Champ) X 2
8) Trevor Berbick (WBC Champion)
9) Tony Tubbs (#2 Ranked All 3 Bodies + Fmr WBA Champ)
10) Carl Williams (#1 Ranked IBF)
11) Andrew Golota (#9 Ranked Contender WBC)
12) Frans Botha (#1 Ranked IBF Contender/Fmr IBF Champ)
13) Tyrell Biggs (#1 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies)
14) Bruce Seldon (WBA Champion)
15) Alex Stewart (#3 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies)

Care to defend your argument?