VIDEOS: Bernard Docusen W 10 Frankie Fernandez; Yoshio Shirai W 15 Dado Marino III

I saw some of those late 50's - mid 60's weekly fights until they took the
friday nite fights off home TV.

Brings back great memories.

 

1. The white stripes--I don't find this argument convincing. One can notice the white stripe on the other boxer even when he is farther from the camera. Also, those black socks seem to be higher up the ankle and the white striped ones folded down.

2. "The knockdowns look more than just "similar"; They are virtually identical."

I agree. This is the one aspect of this film that troubles me. That is why I am skeptical but not utterly convinced that this film is not the real deal.

Against that:

A. The different colored socks

B. The fact that the grain of the film and the style of the filming just does not look like other boxing films of the 1930's. Yes, you can clean a film up, but you can't make a 1935 film look like, let's say, an episode of Perry Mason. The quality of the film stock and cameras had improved too much over the years. Anyway, who would spend that much money remastering 20 seconds of film supposedly of an amateur Jake LaMotta.

C. "LaMotta" in that first film just does not look like Jake LaMotta to me. I guess he might have looked a lot different at 19, but most of the time when you see someone like an actor years earlier than you have ever seen him before, you still recognize him.

 

I don't think white stripes will show up solid black regardless of whether the fighter is white or black. The contrast would be with the shoes.

 

You can go on believing what you want fogey but as I said, I have the original sound film of this newsreel which is from 1939/40 and it is indeed Jake LaMotta at 19 winning the diamond belt in New York against Miller. Beyond that I dont know what you want as proof.

 

I would like to be able to check into it:

1. What Company produced the newsreel--is it Fox Movietone News, Pathe News, March of Time, etc ?

2. Does this newsreel have a listed producer?

3. Is the narrator identified by name?

I will tell you where I'm coming from. It is no trick for a professional to loop in a narration on an old fight film and turn it from a worthless film of two nobodies into a film of this or that famous fighter early in his career, and then sell it for $20 a copy. I would just like some details to verify.

 

Whatever, now you are just being ridiculous... You have two seperate versions of the same fight, each independantly identified as Jake LaMotta in the amateurs winning the diamond belt, and somehow you come up with the idea that someone has gone to the trouble of misidentifying purposely AND adding in a false audio track in order to market it... Forget the fact you have never seen this footage marketed anywhere before. It really makes no difference to me whether you believe it is what it is. It just reaffirms to me why I dont let anything out of my collection. Very few people appreciate the hard work, time, and money that goes into finding and preserving these things. Most respect them about as much as the average bubble gum card.

 

We don`t agree on much you and I, but the above part I quoted all I can say is truer words have never been spoken.

OF,

I don`t really know what else to tell you, the information you are seeking I will leave it to you to find out and discover. Both Klompton and I have repeatedly said that the footage in question is indeed LaMotta, and we know what we are talking about believe me. Now if you persist in insisting or suspecting that the footage is doctored or somehow not genuine than so be it, no skin off my teeth to be honest.

But I do question now wether my releasing some of this footage and having it uploaded onto youtube by My2Sense for everyone to enjoy is a good idea, seeing how the authenticity of this LaMotta footage is being brought into question, makes me wonder if some of the other footage I have sent to be upped onto youtube will be questioned in the futre as well instead of just being appreciated.

If that is the case I may just say the hell with it and not release anything anymore. I mean for ****s sake, here I am generously sharing some very rare footage from my own collection so that everyone here and on the net can see some of it for once, and some folks actually want to question wether one or more of these films is genuine?

The hell with it then.

 

The film is clearly LaMotta in the amateurs as can be seen by the way LaMotta knocks down his opponent. Ray Robinson's amateur fights were also filmed from many different angles.

I don't think the issue with Old Fogey should prevent you from continuing to share this awesome footage. It is appreciated, certainly by me. Fogey, you're great to have a discussion with in these forums but I think you're clearly in the wrong here.

I've told others about these films that you and My2Sense have made available on youtube, and there are a lot of people appreciating the work you've put in. It has made many posters that I know, some who think boxing today is the best it has ever been, change their minds about the skills of the old time fighters such as Ezzard Charles, Jake LaMotta and others.

There's always get the odd critic but that's only a vocal minority. Thousands have viewed these videos and I'm sure they have opened a lot of eyes. This is truly great work and I sincerely hope that it can continue.

 

raging your post's are quality as are your fight films

 

can i just say how very very thankful i am....and really hope you continue...
20 years ago i bought old fight footage on vhs, spent a fortune on it...i had 120 vhs tapes stole from a garage, i was gutted....but my point is, i remember how very very hard it was to get to see some of this stuff...or footage like whats in this thread.....its very easy in this day and age to take youtube and people who upload rare stuff for granted....i don't and remind myself not too...
so thanks so much again for letting me see whats in this thread....i really appriciate it.

 

Strongly seconded.
These films are much appreciated!

 

dick tigers opponent 'spider webb'.....what a class name

 

Sry my2sense but had to stop you right here. This fight was absolutely not disputed. It was close, but a clear cut win for Archie. Every Paper, Ringsider, all had Moore winning. Just because a few Spanish fans "booed" in the crowd for their homeboy, does not make it controversial. Find me two or 3 Expert opinions or Primary Newspaper sources that had valdes winning.


Ty for posting all the video clips