Viewpoints on Hopkins/Calzaghe...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by dpw417, Apr 2, 2008.


  1. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    April 19th is getting closer, and I'm excited about this fight. Both men are very experienced, tactical fighters. I believe the oddsmakers so far are regarding Calzaghe as a solid favorite, and rightfully so. Undefeated for roughly seventeen years is quite an accomplishment.
    Calzaghe's main attributes of speed, workrate, footwork, and ring smarts, and mainly heart, are more than a difficult propositon for Bernard Hopkins.
    When viewing Joe's fight against Kessler, (if I remember correctly) from about the third round onward, Calzaghe marched right to Kessler forcing the pace hard...He seemed to be saying to Kessler, "You are not taking ANYTHING away from me!"...and he fought that way for the remainder of their fight. That is what stood out in my mind, in regards to this...Calzaghe, it can be said "wants it".
    When analysing this fight, it seems both men don't particularly care for the old training axiom of keeping your lead foot on the outside of the left/right hander...both look for angles, and different approaches. In the Kessler fight, Calzaghe demonstrated aggression, and excellent center line defense, when Kessler fired back from being pressed by Calzaghe. It was an impressive performance from the man from Wales.
    How does a 43 y/o technician cope with the workrate of Calzaghe?...and his boxing ability? It is not going to be easy due to the reasons stated. But Hopkins will have his opportunities...Calzaghe has recently stated that he feels confident in his ability to either outbox or out fight Hopkins...Doing whatever is required in the ring. He feels that he will be able to impose his style on Hopkins, whenever he chooses.
    Here is where it gets interesting...Calzaghe will at times in this fight elect to box, but how effective will it be? For years, Hopkins has demonstrated excellent defensive skills and footwork (not in a Sugar Ray Leonard sense) but movement to offset an opponents rythym and timing for attacking...and then countering himself effectively.
    To a large extent, I feel that both men will offset each other offensively for long stretches of the fight. Calzaghe will find out (after trying) that in order to score on Hopkins, he will have to press him, and attempt to outwork him...Hopkins will nullify Joe's offense if he attempts to fight from the outside. Everything Calzaghe does is predicated on finding the opponent with his right jab, either to get the range or to score. With Hopkins' movement, Calzaghe will not have this avenue (IMO). Hopkins is tactically brilliant in this regard, of taking an opponent's weapons away...The right jab of Calzaghe will not be a factor, and this will not enable him to dictate pace from the outside...and it will also hinder him being able to initiate his attack on Hopkins as well...I feel there is no other option, but for Calzaghe to press the action. This is not a news flash for Bernard...and it gives him opportunities in the fight.
    Calzaghe for the most part, presents a difficult target, due to very good defensive skills in his own right...When pressing a fast pace, he will at times, back out find the range with the right jab, bounce two to three times then engage again with combinations very quickly,it appears he moves primarly in straight lines...Hopkins will notice this. Calzaghe will also become overzealous at times in the heat of a fight, when reaching for the body with his straight left, bring his back foot forward, sometimes even, or even past his lead foot... with Calzaghe squared up, this will provide Hopkins very good countering chances...with Calzaghe being off balance. Those episodes describes will be very infrequent, because adjustments will be made,and mistakes corrected by both men.
    With Calzaghe pressing the fight, Hopkins will have the opportunity to get close, and stay close. In the Kessler fight, both he and Calzaghe were comfortable fighting at midrange, they both were still within punching range...but they had room to operate. They both preferred it that way, when Calzaghe initiates, Hopkins will take the opportunity to close the gap completely...In a way, Joe will help him do it. On the inside, I feel Hopkins will be the stronger athlete, and be able to score effectively with uppercuts and body punches.
    In my view, Hopkins will have his chances to score with periodic heavy blows, by finding countering opportunities against the onrushing Calzaghe...Hopkins may not be as powerful with his right as Kessler, but in my estimation, he will be much more accurate with his right hand counters than Kessler was...and it will decrease Joe's workrate. Given that, and factoring in the increased weight and the difference in strength, (Hopkins will be prepared by Mackie Shilstone again for this fight) it will allow this fight to be a close affair (IMO).
    The pick here is Hopkins by split decision.
    (Sorry for the long winded post)...I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on the fight.:good
     
  2. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ...............I like Calzaghe by decision. Hopkins in later years has seemed most comfortable when allowed to dictate the pace, which is slow if he has anything to say about it, and one where he can gradually pick his opponent apart and fight at his whim. Calzaghe most likely won't allow that, and will simply be too busy for Hopkins to contend with.
     
  3. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Calzaghe by wide UD or late TKO.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Hopkins might win 2-4 rounds, but I cannot see him out landing or outworking Clazaghe.

    Hopkins gameplan will be to try to land the counter hook off the ropes and clinch fight. I think Clazaghe will be ready for that. Aside from having great skill on offense and defense, I think Calzahge takes good punch, and excellent stamina. My best guess is it will be a clear but mostly dull victory for Calzaghe.

    One thing worries me a bit in this fight. Hopkins can bend the rules a bit in the ring. There is a chance might foul un-purpose if he's behind.
     
  5. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

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    As big of a fan I am, of Joe that is.. I see this fight turning out ugly, dirty and unpleasant for us watching. Hopkins will grab and do his hit&hold, headbutts and will be tactically aware ALL the time, he knows the art of experience, his ring smarts are vastly underrated lately on here, because of all the young Joe Calzaghe fans reacting way too much on the Kessler/Lacy win.

    And I am going to say this: Hopkins can bang, if he sits down on his punches, he can hurt Joe, he can stagger Joe in an instant, and it could surely be all over, but I dont see it happening.


    Joe Calzaghe wins a tug-o-war kind of fight, winning the fight by 2-3 rounds. (Possibly a SD/MD)
     
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If Calzaghe wants to turn this into an absolute stinker I think he can basically shut Hopkins out. All he has to do is fight cautious, moving around and trying to make Hopkins come to him. Then he needs to explode with flurries occasionally, and he'll guarantee outscore Hopkins nearly every round. Basically the way Jermain Taylor won lots of rounds with flurries.

    If Calzaghe tries to be aggressive and take the fight to Hopkins it becomes infinitely more complex. Hopkins will counter well and do his usual O.D.B routine on the inside. I'd still pick Calzaghe if Joe goes looking for Hopkins, but only by a point or two, and I'd expect lots of people to score the fight either way (for either fighter close).
     
  7. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bump...


    Would like to hear more classic opinions on this.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Here are the reasons Hopkins has a chance, moving from intangibles to the ring.


    1 - Enzo Calzaghe. Enzo is a smart tactitian, he is also exactly the right man to handle Joe. In Wales. Now he's handling him in Vegas. Now, according to Boxing Monthly, Calzaghe has been speaking to Ricky Hatton and his people and certain adjustments have been made - where they will stay, awerness where the air conditioning is concerned. But still Enzo - essentially an old fashioned man perhaps without the patience associated with a more modern camp boss - who is bossing his first camp in the US. Can he control the camp in the same way? Will he be able to put his hands on the things that he needs in the same way as he did in Wales? Can he control the focus of the camp in the same way as he did in Wales? Can he work properly and with patience against those who may be working against him in these things on behalf of the Hopkins camp? You never, ever hear of a camp going badly before the fight. There's a chance that we might hear that it didn't go as well as it might have in Wales, afterwards.

    2 - The Weight. People have tried to take away Hopkins win over Tarver and it's a disgrace. They say that Tarver looked terrible against Joe and that anyone could have beaten him. This desipite the fact that he looked good beating Jones 8 months before and just fine destroying Woods the other night. Hopkins is proven at the weight. Joe is not. I personally believe that Calzaghe will be just as good at the weight as hew ould have been at 168, and there is a chance he will be better - he says he will be better - but he is uproven at the weight. If Joe finds himself struggling for one of the miriad of reasons that exsist at a new weight, at an advanced age, that can become a serious factor.

    3 - Hopkins is under Calzaghe's skin. That's never happened to Joe before. He's been bossed at the various press conferences and in my opinion he's been nervous of a Hopkins attack on his person, too. How will this affect the fight plan?

    4 - The Hopkins Fight Plan. What is Hopkins fight plan? Well, we don't know. So far all that has come out of the Hopkins camp is bull****. Freddy Roach: "We are going for the knockout." Well no, they are not. You can't KO Joe Calzaghe, especially if you are 43. Furthermore, Hopkins: "That's what [the result of the fight] is going to come down to...who can change the other guys style and get him out of his comfort zone..." No. Calzaghe proved against Kessler he can adapt to what he is experiencing and bring out a plan B every bit as good as his plan A. So this is not true. Calzaghe's comfort zone is broader and wider than Hopkins indicates here. But Hopkins knows this. His plan B and C will be crucial. Given that he is the best tactitian and general in the game, they may be THE crucial factor. In my opinion Calzaghe is second, in the world. The difference may be crucial.

    5 - The Calzaghe fight plan - can he be drawn out of it if it is working? Hopkins is a spoiler and a difficult man to share the ring with. If Calzaghe's is winning with his original fight plan Hopkins will turn to the dark arts. Remember Calzaghe against Bika? He was made terribly uncomfortable against a foe who, compared to Hopkins, is limited. This is a crucial factor, and will be the final test for Calzaghe. If he can solve this, he can solve Hopkins. If he is drawn into Hopkins world, SD Hopkins.

    6 - Calzaghe's hands & punching technique. Calzaghe: "My left hand is actually sore to the touch now. I have to make adjustments because of this." Duke Mackenzie: "I'm going for Hopkins...Over here Joe gets away with plenty...In American I beleive his percieved slapping could bring point deductions and Calzaghe will turn into an out of control windmill." Remember: Joe fights outside the rules when he slaps. Referees and judges might not like it.

    7 - "Hopkins has a great record against Southpaws." He does indeed. 11-0. In my opinion this is because:

    8 - "Hopkins is great at taking away his opponents best weapon." This is the crux, and he will show it again. However, I dont' agree that this is Calzaghe's speed, or even his workrate - I think it's his composite awkwarndess. The compounding of his southpaw stance with these other factors. Hopkins wil solve this awkwardness in the same manner he solves southpaws - with footwork and balance.

    9 - Joe Calzaghe: "I beat people with speed." He does indeed. Now for the newsflash: Joe has slowed down. How much? Not much in the Kessler fight. But what if he drops of again? By, say, the same amount as he dropped off in between Lacey and Kessler? If that happens, Joe will lose a decision. If Hopkins has slowed down a bit? Doesn't matter.

    10 - Hopkins best punch is the one Calzaghe is most vulnerable too. The right hand counter down the pipe.

    11 - Hopkins is one of the best counter-punchers to have ever breathed. I believe this. I also believe that Joe's jab is counterable. Joe has a great jab, but he leans back a tiny bit after throwing it sometimes. Vulnerable. Also, when his defence is offence, often - he throws a bunch of punches if he is tagged, and these punches often don't have a lot on them. Vulnerable. Hopkins: "He comes exactly as I want him to come. Straight forward, busy."

    Having said all of this - I favour Calzaghe :lol:

    But some people overstate the case. I bet my card will be something like 8-4, 7-5. But if some of the above goes Hopkins way - and it might - and if Hopkins scores a flash KD in round 3 and Joe panics, don't be astonished to see the judges scorecards read differently. And if two of the them read for still the Ring's light heavyweight champion of the world, don't be that surprised.
     
  9. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    People seem to forget Calzaghe is more than half way to 40 as well. He's not young.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The winner of this fight will be the best man under 175 lbs of the curent generation. I think that much is aparent from last weekends fights.

    If Calzaghe wins then he will be an all time light heavyweight as well as super middleweight. Guys like Kessler would have been competing at light heavyweight in 30s and many all time light heavyweights were under 168. By beating Hopkins, Calzaghe would effectivley be today what Tommy Loughran was in his day as light heavyweight champion eg the best man from 160-175 lbs.

    If Hopkins wins then he should move above Carlos Monzon and Marvin Hagler as a middleweight and pound for pound fighter. He will have complemented his atainments at middleweight by establishing himsel as the man at 175. Only two other former middleweight champions have ever done this and one of them was Bob Fitzsimmons.
     
  11. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Also, Calzaghe's stopped all of two fighters in his past seven fights, and neither one was exceptionally durable.

    Not a snowballs chance in hell he stops Hopkin's.

    A decision, sure. But the idiot in general boxing screaming stoppage? Hah.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Calzaghe will do what he always dose.

    Switch through the gears untill he finds one that works. Hopkins might enjoy initial sucess like Kesller did but Calzaghe will eventualy find the gear to take away his game and then win most of the later rounds.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    And he rellies more heavily on speed than the older man.
     
  14. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Very true.

    He also suffers from hand injuries. Has for a huge part of his career.

    You really think Hopkin's is beyond bringing his guard up high and letting Calzaghe break his hands on Nard's elbows? Or leaning the top of his head into a few of Joe's straight shots?

    Hopkin's is going to be a ******* in there.
     
  15. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    My view point is Who Cares! My 2nd thought is this is not really a fight that will serve to benifit their own legacy.

    I have been hoping that B-Hop would retire after the Tarver fight, to me he had achieved everything he hoped for outside of an RJJ rematch. He has looked poor in 3 of his last 4 fights (even though I believe he never lost to Taylor). This really is a fight that should have happened a few years ago for it to matter to me...or have a major significance.

    What good is it if Calzaghe (who many claim has not fought top level comp) if he beats a 43 y/o B-Hop....What good is it for B-Hop to beat (an aging as well) "Euro" (not necesarily my take) who may just have an inflated recored due to mediocrity of comp (again not necesarily my veiw).

    If Calzaghe wins his resume will still be called into question by: Hop was finished a 43 y/o man! When will he fight a live challenger.
    If Hop wins he will only have beaten blown up welter weights (we already hear this) and an over rated calzaghe who would lose the first time he tried to upgrade his comp).

    I don't see how either guy adds anything to their legacy by virtue of this fight and am largely not interested (even as a Philly guy). having said all of that I believ Hop has just enough left to win a narrow decision...but man I would have liked to see this 4-5 years ago!