Vitali an ATG? Are you serious?

hmmmm my problem with him is the long count vs dempsey. he should have been kayoed in the rematch.

 

true.. but Tunney's greatness probably lays on his five fights with Greb

 

Yeah, the longcount is always going to be an issue but considering he was given the win I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I tend to go by the official decision personally so I have some consistency in my argument, for instance no matter how I feel about de la Hoya-Trinidad or Chavez-Whitaker, I'll consider them a draw and loss respectively all the same.

 

3x world champion! Hell yeah!

 

no i fully agree with you, except when a fighter has actually been down for considerably longer than 10 seconds. as is the case with this fight. sometimes there are long counts, but the guy was up anyway (bute-andrade)

however in this case, a 14 second (approx) count is enough for me to over rule it.

 

:good

 

Nah he deserves to be an ATG and this is coming from a guy that has no interest in Vitali. He used to be exciting but I find him boring(mainly because of his declined state) but even in decline he still rules the division and is #2 and has been for years. Yes the names he beat don't mean much once you bring out tough contenders of the other eras but you can't ignore domination. Vitali is an ATG and easily in the top 15-20, learn to accept it. The only hvy names I really question being ATGs of times not too far away are Bowe & Norton. For the record, they may have better wins(prime & past prime Holy for Bowe, Ali twice for Norton) but they never had the long reign of Vitali. He may not be a top 100 ATG(too many names to list plus I am not going to kill myself to make that list) but he's easily no less than top 20 as an ATG at HW.

 

i suppose tyson and bowe would be

what did they do that was so much better?

vitali has beaten better opponents more frequently for much longer and has never been decisively beaten

 

How do you rate Liston's resume and accomplishments?

 

Obviously I have him on tier 8-10 so I rate him fairly highly. I could see anywhere from 7-12 without to much problem. To be rated any worse you would have to throw out his pre title run. He was one of the most feared and avoided fighters of his day (or any era). from 59-64 (clay/Ali fight) he was the best HW in the world. He destroyed Patterson 2X's (after waiting way to long to get a shot!) unlike any previous champion had been dismantled. His title run/defenses certainly has to be held against him, and the way he lost to Clay/Ali will always IMHO tarnsh his legacy. H2H I don't see very many HW's being able to beat him, but I try not let that factor in my ranking of him or anyone else for that matter. to rate him 13-15 or perhaps even worse is unfathomable to me. On most credible lists you will see him in the 5-11 range. 5-6 seems to high for me, but 7-12 seems resonable and/or defensible.

 

Actually Emanuel Steward and most experts would disagree with you here. Sorry, nothing you can do about it.

 

Unfortunately for him he doesn't have the competition to seal a great legacy. No doubt he is an ATG fighter though. Perhaps in the Top 25.

 

there is obviously the fact that 'hypothetically speaking' he was the best heavyweight in the world for a long time. but 'technically speaking' he was only the best for 2 fights.

i'm quite a big believer in linearity so i can't put liston definitively above patterson and johanneson during the years they were champ. the truth is it did take him too long to get his shot, and once he got it, he soon lost it. that, for me, weighs very heavily against him.

 

Both Klitschko's should be top 5 all time in a who beats who scenario.Boxing has a long history in America,and it hurts them to admit their heavy weight boxing heroes were really ghetto bums.Nothing the Klitschko's could of ever done, or ever do would change their opinion of them.I don't respect those American champions of the past anymore.Because I know the Klitschko's are far superior.

 

Do you rank sanders, brewster, purrity and vitali about wlad in your ranking system?