Vitali Klitchsko vs the Brown Bomber Joe Louis prime for prime

So in other words he did not say that he was in his prime for the Walcott fight.

 

The fact old , beyond prime Sanders was #3 when Vitali fought him shows you how weak the era was. He never ranked anywhere in the top 10 during his prime.
Sam Peter being #2 also shows you how weak the era was. Peter is about as good as the guys Wilder is beating.

Both Bean and Donald were shot when Vitali fought them. Purrity was stopped on cuts.

 

Louis' defenses;

Tommy Farr - 1937 Ring Ranked no.2
Nathan Mann - 1938 Ring Ranked no.3
Harry Thomas - 1938 Not Ranked
Max Schmeling - 1938 Ring Ranked no.1
John Henry Lewis - 1939 Not Ranked (Light Heavyweight Champion)
Jack Roper - 1939 Not Ranked
Tony Galento - 1939 Ring Ranked no.4 (year end no.1)
Bob Pastor - 1939 Ring Ranked no. 3 (year end no.2)
Arturo Godoy - 1940 Not Ranked (can't find source)
Johnny Paychek - 1940 Ring Ranked no. 6
Arturo Godoy - 1940 Ring Ranked no. 2
Al McCoy - 1940 Not Ranked


3 year period, no.1 contender beaten, no.2 contender beaten twice, no.3 contender beaten twice, no.4 contender beaten once.

I'll continue if you like, but my laptop is about to restart.

 

Red Burman - 1941 Ring Ranked no.3
Gus Dorazio - 1941 Not Ranked
Abe Simon - 1941 Ring Ranked no.4
Tony Musto - 1941 Not Ranked
Buddy Baer - 1941 Ring Ranked no.6
Billy Conn - 1941 Not Ranked (Light Heavyweight Champion)
Lou Nova - 1941 Ring Ranked no.5
Buddy Baer - 1942 Ring Ranked no.7
Abe Simon - 1942 Ring Ranked No.5


I'll continue if you like. Comparing Vitali Klitschko's record to that is laughable.
Before you denigrate the standard of challenger; you're happy to use ring magazine ratings for Vitali's opposition, so be consistent.

 

A minor point of correction.

I think that John Henry Lewis was ranked at heavyweight when they fought.

 

its not. the issue was with white people of the time, but u wnt to blame the black guy. we know century u r living in.

It appears you have replied with some kind of absolutist reply " he fought two blacks so you are wrong". There is no absolutism in what I wrote, so you can stop doing that now.

 

The top black talent of the era was basically Walcott.

Its not drawing the color bar, if the best contenders happen to be white!

 

It doesn't matter how many black challengers a champion fights, any more than int matters how many Mormon challengers they fight.

Specifics please.

Who should he have fought, and when?

 

Louis did not fight the top black talent in general from 1937 to 1938, so please explain to me how he cleared up the era?

Janitor,

My reply was formulated based on the incorrect " cleaning out the division " comment.

I mentioned several good African American boxers who were ranked that Joe Louis never gave a title shot to.

Lem Franklin as high as #2
R. Toles in the top ten
Turkey Thompson as high as #6
Al Brown as high as #6
Curtis Sheppard as high as #3
Jimmy Bivins as high as #3
Elmer Ray as high as #2
Murray as high as #6

Being that we are talking about the 1930's and 1940's, it is possible the ranking of African Americans were a little lower then they should have been. I can't say for sure, but its plausible.

If you are a #2 or #3, you rate over at least half of the fighters Louis gave tile shots too. I read stuff that Louis and MSG did not want to fight Elmer Ray.

In addition to the several top black talents Louis did not face, he wasn't calling Maxie Rosenbloom either.

I'll stand on Joe Louis did not clean out the divison. Where Louis deserves extra credit in for re-matches where he won the first fight.

 

Manbearpig,

Yes, lets continue. How often have you see the above fighters? Outside of Schmeling who of course pounded Louis, NOT ONE of those guys would be in the top ten while Vitali was WBC champion. That is how weak some of Louis opponents were. Let me tell you how the fights went down, and they on film to see...maybe McCoy is not.

Tommy Farr. Likely won 6 rounds off Joe Louis and though not a puncher stunned him.

Mann - Gutsy, though out gunned.

Harry Thomas? WHO? Unranked. 40-11-2

Schemling. Ko'd Louis. Note how Schmeling who was thought to be past his best landed with ease

John Henry Louis - Had bad vision problems, Louis gave him a pay day. Unranked at heavyweight

Jack Roper - 61-39 -11. Not ranked, and not worthy.

Tony Galento - Short, and Fat with power, he floored Joe Louis

Bob Pastor - Made Louis look bad in the first fight, lost the title fight in 11 rounds.

Arturo Godoy- I double dare anyone to score the available footage, this could have been a bad decision! Godoy out landed, pushed Louis around the ring, and had him befuddled with a low crouch. I do think you can make a case that Godoy was a top all time 125 heavyweight, and the 2nd best man you listed...and look at how bad he made Louis look!

• The United Press scored the fight even, giving each fighter five rounds and calling five even.

Post-Fight Quotes

• Joe Louis: "This was the worst fight I ever had."
• Arturo Godoy: "Of course, I think I win. Certainly, I should get no worse than draw."

Johnny Paycheck- Epic KO, not like Paycheck was any good though.

Al McCoy - WHO? Already lost 30 times and drew 20 times. Hurt Joe Louis in the 5th.

 

It is possible to find the odd fighter ranked in the top ten that Louis didn't fight, just as you can find the odd one that Vitally Klitschko did fight. If I was arguing the case for Vitally Klitschko here, I would keep quiet about rankings of opponents,in order to avoid embarrassing myself.

What these rankings actually tell us, is that there was somebody else more deserving of a title fight, in every single case.

It is plausible, but then it is also plausible that they simply weren't that good.

I think that even when you line up the best guys that Louis didn't face, he invariably beat somebody who had beaten them, and somebody who was better than them.

That is as close to cleaning out the division as you are realistically going to get.

 

Janitor: It is possible to find the odd fighter ranked in the top ten that Louis didn't fight, just as you can find the odd one that Vitally Klitschko did fight. If I was arguing the case for Vitally Klitschko here, I would keep quiet about rankings of opponents,in order to avoid embarrassing myself.

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Janitor: What these rankings actually tell us, is that there was somebody else more deserving of a title fight, in every single case.

Mendoza: True, but there is no denying Louis' resume would look much better with wins over Ray, Shepard and company.

Janitor: I think that even when you line up the best guys that Louis didn't face, he invariably beat somebody who had beaten them, and somebody who was better than them.

That is as close to cleaning out the division as you are realistically going to get.

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No, he said in his autobiography," the last time, I felt like my old self in a fight was the Mauriello fight".
as he fought Mauriello before he fought Walcott, this would necessarily preclude him being in his prime for Jersey Joe. Louis was never the same fighter after he came out of the Army.