Vitali Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Jul 7, 2008.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    A chin and punching ability like Liston has never seen......
     
  2. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why are you doing this?
     
  3. standing 8countboxing

    standing 8countboxing Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I tend to agree with Vitali beating Liston
     
  4. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    Where's suzieq on this subject?
     
  5. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I honestly don't know if Vitali hits harder than Cleveland Williams.

    Ehhh.
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I'm pretty sure I do.

    Vitali was fighting much bigger, stronger fighters and still posted the greatest KO percentage of any champ in history.

    Big Cat passed the eye test but was really a b to b- level fighter with a weak chin and even ordinary power. He was knocking over 180 lb'ers or guys who tipped the scales with blubber but without skill. RIP, but over-rated in the truest sense of the term.
     
  7. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I agree, to some degree.

    You have to concede that Vitali benefited greatly from only having 37 fights. And up until the late 90's, who was he knocking out beyond D level fighters?

    Taking 5 to get rid of the likes of Dicky Ryan when Valuev did it in one?
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    wow, that's a real stretch to find a hole in his resume.

    i do agree he had a somewhat limited career. however, i recognize most of the names on his resume and have indeed seen many of them fight at a fairly world class level.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Williams is a hard fighter to rate but at the worst asesment he is an order of magnitude better than anybody VK had his hand raised against.

    If Williams is a B level fighter then what are the best guys VK beat?

    C and D level fighters perhaps?

    And dont forgett that KO% and chin tend to be inversley proportional to the quality of your competition.
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    you are living in a world of fairy tales.

    williams best win was, what, stringbean no-punch terrell, later displaced by a loss? or was it a dq against dick richardson?

    i forgive my earlier assessment. he was a c-level fighter at best.
     
  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Vitali Klitschko may have indeed fought a number of men who were second rate, but calling his comp D level, is just as intentionally misleading as saying that he had the greatest win/KO ratio of all time.

    As limited as they were, Ross Purity, Vaugn Bean, Larry Donald and Kirk Johnson were not easy men to KO. In fact, at least 3 of those men were only stopped once in their rather long careers, and those stoppages came against Vitali Klitschko. Ross Purity's record is about as attractive as a teenage girl with acne and braces, but this can also be misleading. In 54 fights, he was knocked out or stopped on only 3 occasions. two of them occured within his first 5 or 6 fights to undefeated prospects, while the other came against Klitschko at a more advanced stage in his career. The rest of his defeats or draws were mostly to undefeated prospects, or fringe types with good records. Purity also KO'd 27 of his 31 victoms, and scored a few impressive wins over men that he was not favored to beat.

    Klitschko's wins over Herbie Hide and Corrie Sanders are commonly written off as being average performances against either old or chinny opposition. Hide was still very close to his prime, and possesed great starting speed, power and great conditioning. Vitali iced him in just two rounds. It's a fair criticism that Corrie Sanders was in his late 30's and coming off a layoff, but I would have liked to have asked some of the other top rated fighters in 2004 how they felt about facing him.

    Vitali Klitschko was no all time great in my book, but at the same time, his career is all too often oversimplified by his critics and detractors as being comprised of C and D level fighters. Rarely is the whole story ever told....

    How would he do against Liston? Obviously I started this thread for the purpose of stirring the pot, and never intentionally expected to be taken seriously. However, it would be rather nieve of anyone to think that Sonny would just walk all over Vitali Klitschko the way he did Floyd Patterson. Size isn't everything, but it can't be ignored either, and frankly I can't think of any truly good big men who Liston ever defeated nor even faced for that matter. Additionally, most of the men Liston ever defeated were either previously floored, Ko'd, Tko'd, or would later be at some point. Klitschko was never dropped in his career, and his stoppage losses to Byrd and Lewis were not conventional TKo's, nor did they result from being dominated in the purest sense of the term ( for those who saw those fights. ) As a matter of fact, No one ever left the ring with Vitali, ahead on the cards.

    Liston may very well have eeked out a decision, or a late stoppage on cuts, but its not a given. This is one fight where size, strength, conditioning and intimidation would not be in Liston's favor. He would also have to be prepared for the fact that he may have to take some of the hardest shots of his career, and showing heart may be a necessary means of winning the fight.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    That stringbean no-punch Terrell is a somewhat better scalp than anybody Vitally Klitschko ever beat as far as I can see.

    Am I missing anything here?
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I certainly dont think that VKs best oponents were D level any more than I think that Williams was B level as some have suggested.
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Lord almighty...

    And I always wondered at the success of Harry Potter books and Dungeons & Dragons.

    Now I am truly convinced the world is full of rubes and halfwits.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Please explain to this rube/halfwit exactly which fighter that Vitally Klitschko beat was better than Williams or Terrel for that matter.