Vitali Klitschko Is Overrated

Wow, I was not expecting you to double down on your opinion that Bruno was "very good at holding on and surviving" when hurt. As I said, it's amongst the most obviously erroneous claims I've seen made on this forum, which in itself is no small statement.

The fact you've posted a video of Bruno being ineffective in attempting to hold as he gets stopped in the 3rd round in support of your argument, has suprised me even more.

 

There's a reason why Lewis never rematched Vitali and that involved him not thinking he could win the rematch.

 

Agreed.

I loved Bruno too and at the other end of the scale, it annoyed me in the 90's when he was portrayed as a bit of joke by some of the mainstream media. I remember the comedy sports show "They think it's all over" regularly taking the mickey out of him. Similiar with Tim Henman. Casuals would talk about them like they were dreadful, when at their peak, they were both amongst the best 10 in the world at their respective disciplines.

The above notwithstanding, claiming Bruno is as good as Vitali, or even notably better than Sanders & Peter, is grossly overrating him.

 

I'm surprised that I spelled it out for you in plain English and provided the context to the conversation you jumped into and then you insisted on failing to miss the point on purpose. I shouldn't have wrote a blanket statement that he's good at surviving in general, that was wrong. I was thinking back to his match with Tyson where he made it difficult for Tyson to follow up after landing a punch. It was a comparison of styles.

Are you denying that Tyson was having difficulty landing follow up punches when Bruno clinched, yes or no?

Do you think Samuel Peter would have an easy time stopping Bruno, yes or no?

 

The version of Sanders Vitali faced was past it and out of shape though

 

We disagree a little on the scoring, I have watched Vitali vs Lewis more than once and I actually think he won all 6 rounds, but two rounds were close and could see someone giving one or two to Lewis.

The Byrd fight was pretty clear for Vitali and I have not watched that fight much, twice I believe.

 

Winning 4-2 (with your face looking like a car crash) and 5-4 is not outclassing and it was Vitali constantly missing punches that caused his injury vs Byrd.

 

Sam Peter who was a poor man's Frans Botha was a level below Frank Bruno. The Bruno who showed kinks in the armour of prime Tyson blows Peter away.

How Vitali performed against a faded Lewis, below past prime Evander and Zeljko Marovic

 

The only part of your post I addressed was your statement - "even if Bruno got hurt, he was very good at holding on and surviving" - to explain to you it was wrong. Which it was.

Bruno clinched a lot vs Tyson and it impacted on Tyson's punches. However, the video you posted, where Tyson stopped Bruno in the 3rd round whilst he was attempting to hold on, contradicts, rather than supports, your assertion that Bruno was "very good at holding on and surviving".

I didn't reference your comments on Peter vs Bruno, because whilst I'd pick Peter, it is at least in the realms reasonable debate.

However, as you've asked, I don't think Peter would have an easy time stopping Bruno. I don't think Peter would find anything about fighting Bruno easy. They were both physically strong, heavy handed & slow. Bruno was the better long range technical boxer with the superior jab. Peter was more durable, didn't freeze like Bruno when hurt and didn't gas as bad as Bruno late in fights. I suspect Bruno would out-jab & out-box Peter in the 1st half of the fight. Whilst I wouldn't rule out a Bruno stoppage, it's not the most likely outcome imo. If Bruno doesn't stop him in around 6-rounds he's in trouble. He'd gas over 12-rounds, as he always did, and there's no way a gassed Bruno goes a full 12 vs Peter without getting hurt at some point, and (apart from Jumbo Cummings when Bruno froze statuesque as he caught bang on the bell to finish the 1st round) every fight in which Bruno was hurt, he was stopped.

 

I disagree with the "missing punches" theory. I have always maintained Vitali and Holyfield suffered the same injury against Byrd because Byrd would use his open right glove (in the southpaw stance) to catch their jabs and redirect it.

Stand up in whatever room you're in and throw a hard jab and try to jerk your extended arm outward when it's fully extended. You'll feel it right away.

Holyfield wasn't constantly "missing" with his left against Byrd and he tore his should out. Byrd was reaching out with his open glove trying to catch and redirect every jab Evander threw. Even when Holyfield wasn't throwing it, Byrd would reach out and slap at it or grab at it with his open glove.

And you don't tear your rotator cuff because you miss a jab. TWO guys certainly don't do it against the same guy in a two-year span.

 

A bit of context is needed here.

Peter was the WBC Champion, and the #2 Ring Magazine Contender, while Wlad was the #1.

At the start of the year, Ring Magazine published a list of fights that most needed to happen, and Wlad Peter II was on the list.

On top of this Vitally had been out of the ring for four years.

Most people on this forum picked Vitally, but a significant minority including myself, picked Peter because of how long Vitally had been out of the ring.

This was a good win given the context.

 

Context is needed here.

That WBC belt went from one guy to another to another. Rahman picked it up through vacancy and lost it to past prime Oleg. Then Oleg lost it to Peter and Peter immediately lost it to Vitali.

It was no different than Charles Martin picking up a belt. Or Bermane Stivetne picking up a belt. Stiverne was also Ranked #2 by Ring. Does that make Stiverne a top quality HW?

You rely on using boxrec for debate and I have no interest in that. Looking at Peter being #2 by Ring could tell me he's as good as Riddick Bowe who was also ranked #2 by Ring. Context matter

When was the last time you watched Vitali vs Peters , 2008? Refresh your memory. Vitali may have been out 4 years but it was Peter who looked like he hadn't stepped inside a ring in 10 years. The man stumbled off balance throwing jabs. Bruno would batter this guy . Just look at him. I suspect you will chose not to.

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