"Vitali Klitschko is very beatable" Is he? Weekend analysis

Fan2010 · Dec 17, 2009

rainmaker said: ↑

Haye and "wear him out" do not belong in the same sentence. 0 stamina.
Haye throws around 140 punches over 12 rounds.
Vitali threw 108 punches in 1 round (11th)
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Doesn't mean a thing! Haye can take you out with 1 shot, Vitali cannot. Vitalli needs to land as many shots to take the fight away from his opponents. Haye knows out of 10 shots he may throw in a round, if 1 of them were to connect, it's good night. And I don#t want to hear any nonsense about Haye not having the power to KO VItali, because his power moved right up with him, he nearly dropped Valuev, he can drop Vitali. Vitali is well aware of that fact, so do not expect to see him try to throw so many punches in a round.
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take Haye's Nutshack from your chin, step back and turn of the computer:tong

Godfather · Dec 17, 2009

RUSKULL said: ↑

Johnson landed only 5 power punches but he landed many jabs too.
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We both know this is pretty irrelevant. Haye clearly has more speed and power than Johnson. Vitali's face will take a lot more punishment than in the Lewis fight.

I think most of the rounds would be very close with Vitali taking the majority due to constantly closing the gap using his jab. However Haye will be fighting in a similar style to the one vs Valuev but will throw more flurries aimed almost entirely at Klitschko's face.

Vitali has the chance of a knockout in the first 3/4 rounds but if it goes longer than that, which I think it will, the fight will get stopped on cuts in favour of Haye

Jaime · Dec 17, 2009

Godfather said: ↑

We both know this is pretty irrelevant. Haye clearly has more speed and power than Johnson. Vitali's face will take a lot more punishment than in the Lewis fight.

I think most of the rounds would be very close with Vitali taking the majority due to constantly closing the gap using his jab. However Haye will be fighting in a similar style to the one vs Valuev but will throw more flurries aimed almost entirely at Klitschko's face.

Vitali has the chance of a knockout in the first 3/4 rounds but if it goes longer than that, which I think it will, the fight will get stopped on cuts in favour of Haye
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Haye has clear stamina issues, the longer the fight goes on the less his chances are.

BigBone · Dec 17, 2009

Godfather said: ↑

Vitali has the chance of a knockout in the first 3/4 rounds but if it goes longer than that, which I think it will, the fight will get stopped on cuts in favour of Haye
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Vitali does get cut relatively easy, however that works both ways. He physically beats opposition up, and Haye is ain't no defensive wizard. He's gonna get hit like never before and with amount of punches he never faced.

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Godfather · Dec 17, 2009

Jaime said: ↑

Haye has clear stamina issues, the longer the fight goes on the less his chances are.
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I cant see Vitali's face holding up any further than the 10th.

Also I dont think Haye does have any real stamina issues. It may not be as good as Vitali but if my prediction is correct it shouldnt matter anyway.

I think Wlad is more likely to reveal whether Haye has stamina issues or not

McGrain · Dec 17, 2009

Haye just boxed 12 busy rounds. His stamina issues are less drastic than they were previously percieved to be. Of course, Vitali is a volume puncher.

UndisputedUK · Dec 17, 2009

rainmaker said: ↑

Haye and "wear him out" do not belong in the same sentence. 0 stamina.
Haye throws around 140 punches over 12 rounds.
Vitali threw 108 punches in 1 round (11th)
----------------------------------------------------

Doesn't mean a thing! Haye can take you out with 1 shot, Vitali cannot. Vitalli needs to land as many shots to take the fight away from his opponents. Haye knows out of 10 shots he may throw in a round, if 1 of them were to connect, it's good night. And I don#t want to hear any nonsense about Haye not having the power to KO VItali, because his power moved right up with him, he nearly dropped Valuev, he can drop Vitali. Vitali is well aware of that fact, so do not expect to see him try to throw so many punches in a round.
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Vitali cannot take you out with one shot? I beg to differ.

Fan2010 · Dec 17, 2009

BigBone said: ↑

"Vitali looked very beatable tonight" - average ESB poster

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Come again? Got hit by FIVE power shots?

The guy on my avatar asks you not to lose your mind just because it's a HW fight, and look at the fight as any other to find out that:

1) Kevin Johnson is an outstanding defensive fighter for a HW. People don't look good vs. great defensive fighters

2) Kevin Johnson has no offense whatsoever, or his jab based offense was totally limited by Vitali Klitschko, who made not a single mistake, therefore never got countered

3) So guess what dummy, it was a BOXING MATCH, and Vitali won every single second of it!

So let's say Bernard Hopkins or Floyd Mayweather decides to go all 36 minutes on the defensive for some reason, using head movement, upper body movement, shoulder roll, pick up punches with gloves, turn away/lean back/duck under shots, BUT! not fight back unless there's an opening, don't open up, and be the opponent Manny Pacquiao, Andre Ward, Arthur Abraham or Chad Dawson, the fight would go down the same how Kevin Johnson vs. Vitali Klitschko did. But wait, it's impossible! Hopkins and Mayweather has offense and not scared to use it! Exactly! :deal

Johnson himself admitted, he was waiting for a mistake to counter and for "Goofy" / "Robot" Vitali to get tired. Guess what, neither happened in 36 minutes of action. So Vitali approached the fight as a boxer not to go wild and get countered, took a stance to stay close, work, work, work, counter if Johnson himself opens up, and lean back if Kevin pops out the jab (BTW Johnson had the reach advantage.)

Since Johnson never opened up with punches, just popped out the occasional jab, he wasn't beaten to the punch like Arreola or got seriously hurt like Lennox Lewis, who guess what, got tagged because they went in to win, opened up with punches, and got caught.

- imagine Floyd's or Hopkins' defensive skills adjusted for a natural HW (not Toney), with the size, speed and mobility limitations, and there you have Kevin Johnson, the first outstanding defensive American HW in a very long time. He has great reflexes, quick upper body and head movement, good punch estimation to pick up shots with the gloves, lean back, roll under or use the shoulders, etc, he has it all. However:

- he's a very average offensive fighter fighting scared. And the combination of this results in Saturday's fight. The sort of explosiveness the young Tyson had might've put Johnson away, but since he's a great defensive fighter using all skills, reflexes and energy to defend and to land a counter something Vitali never gave him, every other HW would've fought this kind of fight, because somehow you have to fight. I just doubt every other HW would've gotten away taking just 5 power shots.

All the greats had dull title defenses, Ali, Holmes, Lewis, everyone. You can't look good vs. a very negative fighter who's good enought not to be put away, and that's what he's looking for.

Now Vitali Klitschko, at 38, didn't make it ugly, didn't look clueless, didn't go wild and got countered, he made the necessary adjustment: BOXED through 12, made it a worksmanlike fight, threw 1000 punches (most of them lefts just to keep Johnson's jab at low frequency) and got hit by FIVE power shots in the process. "HE SHOULD RETIRE!" Lol.

We already knew Vitali can bang you away, lead with the jab, counter effectively, chop you down, drop his hands and still not get hit and "do a rope-a-dope without a rope" (Larry Merchant). Now we know he's got the condition to do 12 rounds, throw a zillion punches and get hit by five power shots in return.

(Here's respected analyst Dwyer's view from Johnson's point of view, bringing in Ali-Foreman)
[yt]MCJTV2Ndqqg[/yt]

So who and exactly HOW will beat Vitali Klitschko?
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Excellent post thumbsup

kriszhao · Dec 17, 2009

McGrain said: ↑

Haye just boxed 12 busy rounds. His stamina issues are less drastic than they were previously percieved to be. Of course, Vitali is a volume puncher.
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Busy as in a track meet? because 11 punches per round sure the hell aint busy!

RUSKULL · Dec 18, 2009

Godfather said: ↑

We both know this is pretty irrelevant. Haye clearly has more speed and power than Johnson. Vitali's face will take a lot more punishment than in the Lewis fight.

I think most of the rounds would be very close with Vitali taking the majority due to constantly closing the gap using his jab. However Haye will be fighting in a similar style to the one vs Valuev but will throw more flurries aimed almost entirely at Klitschko's face.

Vitali has the chance of a knockout in the first 3/4 rounds but if it goes longer than that, which I think it will, the fight will get stopped on cuts in favour of Haye
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A cuts stoppage would be Haye's only chance really, where Vitali could KO Haye, cut him, or just outpoint him. :good

............and Johnson has a better jab & overall defensive skills than Haye.

RUSKULL · Dec 18, 2009

I never heard that guy's commentary before but he appears to be spot on. I think Kevin's strategy was to wait for the later rounds when VK would be tired & then he'd turn it on. The only problem was VK didn't take any rounds off & he wasn't nearly tired enough for KJ to effectively counter.

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"Vitali Klitschko is very beatable" Is he? Weekend analysis

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