Vitali Klitschko > Usyk > Wlad Klitschko

I didn't just make an empty claim and leave it there as some sort of childish „ragebait“, I wrote paragraphs in defense of my opinion. So no, I'm not trolling.

I just think Usyk, while great, is overrated. Nothing negative is ever mentioned about him, even if true.

Come at me bro.

Are you actually saying you think Chisora was closer to prime against Usyk than Vitali?

And are you actually saying that you think Vitali was closer to his prime against Chisora than Usyk was when he fought him? Vitali was over 40. The 45 fights before him at that point aren't in his favor, they're against him. There's nothing to even discuss here. It's scientifically, biologically, impossible, so you're just plain wrong.

To be fair I wouldn't make the claim that Vitali version of Chisora would be the favorite against Usyk, but I definitely think he'd do better and have a better chance of a KO if he weren't already gassed before round 6.

But that's the thing. Belly didn't have a belly vs Wladimir Klitschko. Belly didn't get careless against Wladimir Klitschko and almost get KO'd. And I was never one who thought Fury and Joshua would beat Usyk, actually. I thought if it goes to 12 rounds Usyk will win, but otherwise saw the fights as 50-50 until the first weigh in when Fury was scared against Usyk, and then overcompensated the next day by pushing him, that's when I slightly favored Usyk. As for Joshua I thought it a good test for if Joshua has the balls to do what it takes, so the first fight I genuinely considered 50-50, but after seeing Joshua has no balls I predicted an Usyk win the second time around also. Joshua had balls until Ruiz, when he realized he can get hurt it was over.

I'm not one of those who would claim Joshua or Fury got robbed, Usyk won fairly, but they were relatively close fights, especially the first fight vs Fury, and against opponents who weren't at their best, Fury physically and mentally, and Joshua mentally.

I guess you would be surprised to find out that outside of the anglo-world, people weren't so brainwashed with the Joshua/Fury hype against Usyk, just as less of us are currently brainwashed with Usyk hype, funnily enough. Or maybe it's not funny and to be expected?

Mainstream media is good only for getting basic info on who fights who and when and the fight would be better without English-language commentators than with, or frankly any commentary at all, I can see what's going on in the fight by myself thank you very much, don't need somebody to force a narrative on me.

 

That would be more appropriate for the other thread I created (https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...d-hrgovic-is-underrated-long-analysis.745999/) but fine. I will probably repeat a lot of my points I already made there.

Coincidentally I already explained why Usyk KO'd Dubois and Hrgovic didn't:

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/punching-power-usyk-parker-hrgovic.746044/#post-23706952

Hrgovic, from a country of not even 4 million, was gifted a win over Zhang, from a country of 1 billion+, and the incentive for it was... ?! Even just going by compubox stats Hrgovic beat Zhang more decisively than Usyk beat Fury, and I wouldn't want Usyk robbed of that fight just because it was close. If you actually watch the fight it's clear that Hrgovic was far more active and easily outscored Zhang in most rounds. Find me a moment where you think Hrgovic doesn't want to be there more than Zhang doesn't want to be there in this moment, timestamped 38:35-38:50, last seconds, last round:

This content is protected

Zhang literally turns and runs to his corner and drags himself by the ropes before the bell even rings. Hrgovic doesn't seem to mind being there.

I presume you mean Sean Turner? See bro how you expose your lack of knowledge, and I don't mean the surname mistake. I don't blame you, as it's understandable most people don't know this. Sean Turner insulted Hrgovic before the fight, I don't recall what it was and can't find it even in Croatian media now, so Hrgovic said he won't KO him and will beat him up all the rounds instead. Too bad the fight and pre-fight shittalk aren't available on YT or anywhere, most other Hrgovic fights are.

And yes, I can imagine Usyk going the distance of 8 rounds with him. I can't imagine Usyk losing, but Usyk only KO'd 1 out of 4 people in heavyweights, and even in cruiserweight he didn't have an impressive KO ratio, which is fine, not every great boxer has to.

If you actually watched the fight (and this one you can, it's on YT), Hrgovic was robbed. Joyce maybe threw more but he definitely landed less.

This content is protected

I recall giving Joyce only one round, I think it was 3 or 4, though it was overall close. But yea if you can lie that Zhang won, why not lie about this one also, unlike Zhang Joyce at least throws a lot of punches so it can „look“ like he's winning.

Might rewatch it tomorrow and score it again.

I'd give it that Chisora punches harder, and Joyce is very open, but the drop was more a result of him catching Joyce off balance than actually rattling Joyce's brain, Joyce immediately got up and continued the fight. Better if you mentioned Zhang, he is the only one who actually dropped Joyce. I do think Hrgovic underrates chin punches, but being a taller fighter it's also more difficult to throw them.

Not Hrgovic's fault he couldn't get a better opponent. And did you even watch the fight? Every time McKean was in danger he'd clinch, and the judge allowed the perma clinching. It was an ugly fight. Akinwande did the same thing to Lennox as McKean did to Hrgovic. Akinwande was DQd in 5th. And the judge prolonging the fight only ended up hurting McKean, as every time he was near being KO'd he'd save himself with a clinch so he suffered a lot of braindamage in just one fight. After that McKean didn't fight for over a year, so of course he got ko'd by a boxer whose specialty is koing now that his brain's been turned to mush by Hrgovic because of poor refereeing.

Proof you're wrong: immediately after Adeleye's series it was Hrgovic who took the initative and went forward and landed punches on Adeleye some 20-30 or so seconds until the end of the round. That's not something somebody a few clean punches away from getting KO'd does. Adeleye was so exhausted he put his arms on his knees for a second or two to recover a bit after the referee separated them after that punch series. Adeleye was spent. And Hrgovic won literally all rounds vs Adeleye, though the first 2 were the closest while Adeleye was fresh. Wardley got a questionable and controversial stoppage on Adeleye but if you actually look at the fight, Hrgovic was far better technically and more dominant in terms of volume than Wardley was, though Wardley is faster and more powerful.

Hrgovic and Wardley both have massive balls, unlike Fury and especially Joshua, it's too bad we won't see either of them against Usyk. I'd wager they'd put up a better fight than "get pulled by the nose for 12 rounds twice" Joshua and Fury did.

You are repeating all the points I debunked in the thread I linked at start. Hrgovic only ever „rabbit punches“ if the opponent turns his head or bends, because then that's what they're presenting, what is he supposed to do, not punch? Just let them be for 3 minutes straight as long as their head is bent/turned to present the back of the head, like a free get away from getting punched card? There's no incentive for judges to be biased in favor of Hrgovic in letting him get away with that if he was truly doing something wrong.

The referee should be the one to penalize the fighter who presents the back of his head so they stop doing it, it's not the responsibility of the fighter to not punch the back of the head if constantly presented it.

That makes Haye a more precise or powerful puncher? Not an overall better boxer. I admittedly didn't watch the fight. I do know David Haye lost to Wlad, so it's unlikely he'd win vs Vitali, who is overall better.

What other means of comparison do you have? I'd say Usyk was definitely closer to his prime when fighting Chisora than Vitali was to his. It's arguable if the version of Usyk that entered HW is better than his current or later version. Some would say yes, others no. He's more powerful and experienced but also slower and older.

Nah, Hrgovic fought the best version of Zhang compared to Kabayel, Parker, Wilder, and Joyce. Zhang and Joyce are Hrgovics best wins. And it's not Hrgovic's fault he can't get fights, everybody ducks him. He accepted Wardley fight in april last year for june (only 2 months after the Joyce fight where he had a cut), but Wardley decided for Huni instead. He called out Dubois, Wardley, Fury, and Kabayel recently. Kabayel suffered a cut so he has a decent excuse. Fury chose Makmudov, a worse name than Hrgovic. Dubois chose Zhang, also a worse name. Itauma, ranked 1st on WBO, is busy with Franklin in March. So it's logical that Hrgovic as 2nd ranked would get the opportunity vs Wardley in his mentioned April fight. You think Hrgovic Wardley fight will happen? Lol. Hrgovic happily accepted the Joyce fight even on short notice, happy to finally get a good fight, even if the actual intention was for Frank Warren to destroy his career. So yeah don't blame Hrgovic for the lack of names. He ain't the one ducking.

If Zhang came at normal weights in fights and did cardio, IMO he would have been the biggest threat in the HW division, luckily for others, including Hrgovic, he comes obese and gasses quickly, especially in his latest fights. And age isn't on his side anymore either. It's highly likely he'd beat Kabayel and Parker in proper form, perhaps even Hrgovic.

 

Vitali had 15 won title fights against DIFFERENT people, Wlad even more.

And why were neither of them undisputed?

Because together they held all belts but didn't want to fight each other.