Vitali Klitschko vs Evander Holyfield

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by El Hans, Jun 4, 2019.



  1. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    I don’t agree, And I’ve watched that round easily over a 100 times ( no joke :smoking:) Holyfield and Cooper are both two of my all time favorites and it’s one of my favorite fights in my almost 40 years of watching the sport live. I remember that particular night vividly.

    He gets rocked by that right, wobbles forward into Cooper, clubbed to the back of the head and the jaw, is spun around in to the ropes, goes down a Lane gives him the count. He gets battered a bit but less than 20 seconds later comes roaring back. GREAT ROUND.

    My closing thoughts on this matchup are peak Holyfield is a very tough out, so often in these threads people pull up and use fights for reference that aren’t his peak form. He had such a long career and he was different fighter at different stages of his career with varying success. I just think in his peak form he does everything exceptionally well, fast, great combos, chin, stamina, heart, good work rate, he would be very competitive with any heavyweight in history and in my view he beats most of them.

    Vitali always looked like a monster to me but he lacked the great opponents to push him towards the top (for me) and the fact that he couldn’t fight Wlad hurts too. I always thought he’d of beaten Wlad. He’s a tough out for anyone. Great Chin, knows how to fight big, strong puncher, toughness and Grit. I was always of the opinion he kinda retired Lewis. But fair play to Lennox he was past his best days while Vitali was entering his peak.
     
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  2. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    The Holyfield who fought Ruiz and Byrd? Come one, thats way to noble to put in such a young inexperiences fighter against the great iron mandible. Your way to generous :clap: We should at least take the Real Deal who beat Botha and Valuev as the gold standard.

    But I wouldn´t take the Vitali who got staggered by that 38 years old south african sniper rifle. Take the one who destroyed Charr....

    :copas::crazylick::copas::crazylick:
     
  3. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    Well at least was this Holyfield not injured in opposite to Klitschko vs. Byrd. So this was even more generous to put in one opponent at his best against another one who could only keep up one arm, as the shoulder-musle was teared off. So a more adequate comparison would be the Holyfield who was humilated by Donald and stopped by Toney (in his Heavyweight debut). When can also put Klitschko of the Hide fight in it.
     
  4. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    However, Holyfield fough the better opponents. Vitali did lose rounds against better competition: Byrd and Lewis.
     
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  5. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Why would you use two fights where Holyfield was clearly SHOT!!! Do you honestly think he couldn’t beat Donald and Toney is his Prime..

    He beat MANY fighters who were light years better than Donald.

    The Holyfield who beat Foreman or even the older version who beat Tyson I’ll take both to beat Vitali. Any Vitali you want.
     
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    He developed his style a bit later. I'll take tall tall, powerful and hard to out box, with an iron chin over small on PED's. As I said you don't have to be great to beat Holyfield. Lots of guys at heavyweight proved that
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    For the board, I said I was acting like you for once, hence that part ( 3-0 ) was bogus. After all these years I wanted to show you how you sound at times. I thought I clearly explained that in the reply, but to clear it up, no you didn't say Holyfield went 3-0 vs Bowe. Let's examine the genesis of the reply.

    You said " Holyfield is 5-0 vs. Bowe , Holmes , Foreman , Douglas and Valeuv on fair scorecards. " This not accurate at all. 5-2 at best, unless you think Holyfield won all three fights vs Bowe, hence my sarcastic reply. My issue was this. The way you write it, Holyfield never lost to any of those guys ( 5-0 ), but the truth is he did lose three times officially. Your quote, which I think you were serious on is very misleading, and I'm being kind.

    I think Holyfield did enough vs a very inactive Valuev to earn the decision. I also think Holy vs. Bowe 2 can be scored a clean draw.

    Now I have said my piece and only came back as you said you could issue an apology.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  8. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes he fights very well tall but I have a feeling Holyfield would target that big body. Vitali would not like it
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    What, he lost two rounds to Leiws and just three to Byrd. Vitali ahead in both fights. That is my point. He also took both fights on short notice.

    Now do you really want to to go over the rounds Holyfield lost? Heck he's 1-1-1 vs Ruiz, 1-1 vs Moorer, was in real trouble vs Bert Cooper, was TKO'd by James Toney, lost to Larry Donald, did not look good vs Vaugh Bean, and was far behind vs Byrd in a fight he lost. The truth Blade is Holyfield lost more rounds in the above fights that Vitali did in his professional career. Hands down, no issues there.

    Common Opponents comparison.

    Vitali TKO's Bean and Donald. Holyfield lost to Donald and takes Bean the distance.

    Vitali up 4-2 of Lewis on all three cards and lost on cuts. Holyfield behind on both scorecards, at least the fair one. The Draw vs Lewis was bad. So Holyfield losing to Valuev sort of evens out.

    Vitlai way up on Byrd. Holyfield way behind. Both losses but there is a huge difference on the score cards, as as we know Vitlai fought with a torn up shoulder which required surgery.

    Noticing a trend?

    Vitali didn't get a chance to fight Tyson, Danny Williams ruined that one. He did not get a chance to fight Valuev either, the fight was offered, Valuev declined.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Just like the did vs. Bowe and Lewis? Sure, sure. Vitali was more mobile than either and very active. Vitali had a lower guard for his body, using his legs, and height with some head movement for the defense above his shoulders. He also had a counter punch. A reason he was so hard to out box.

    I never saw Vitali have an issue with any body shot and this included Briggs who landed a good one.
     
  11. thanosone

    thanosone I Am Eternal Full Member

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    Dino said 5-0 on fair scorecards. Meaning the win he did get in the Bowe fight and the other four fighters he named. Not that hard to comprehend.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
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  12. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    lolz.. What you just posted is almost worse since misquoting somebody for the purpose of setting them up for ridicule is behavior i would ever even think about let alone engage in.
    You weren't mimicking me , you were just being yourself.

    ps , I had Holy winning the rematch by a hair and thought he could have nicked the Valeuv fight when he was 44 years of age.

    If he could achieve those feats , It leads me to believe he could have beaten Vitali at his absolute best.
     
  13. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The One and Only Full Member

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    Did you read my quote of Primo Carnera (direct above mine) where he wanted to put in the Douglas Holyfield (at his absolute peak) against the one-armed Klitschko from the Byrd fight? So it was mainly an answer to this, a bit ironical.

    Two-tone Toney might have been defeated by Holyfield, but Donald would be allways difficult stylistical and was about the same age as him, therefore didn't he fight him at his best. While you can compare Klitschkos fights vs. Donald and Bean with these of Holyfield.

    Which fighters were that besides past his best Tyson, glass-chin Moorer and maybe Bowe, which were these light-years better?:thinking: Please name them!
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Holyfield also lost to plenty of lesser men. A cuts stoppage and a torn shoulder injury is the primary reason why Vital lost, otherwise we could be talking about an un-defeated fighters. Holyfield just didn't look good vs bigger fighters.

    It's clear who did better vs Lewis and Byrd. Its also clear who did better vs Donald, and Bean.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Oh he listed the fighters. The way he wrote it, Holyfield never lost to Bowe. 5-2 on fair scorecards would have been the truth.

    Now Dino also says Holyfield beat Lewis the re-match. He can't score a fight. Lewis there more punches, landed more punches and landed for greater accuracy.

    When the bell sounded to end the fight, Lewis raised his hands. Holyfield did not. That's a sure sign of a fighter who knew he lost. 8-4, 7-4-1, or 7-5 are fine scores.


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    Jabs
    Lewis- Holyfield 2
    Landed 76 - 52
    Thrown 231 -162
    Percent 33% -32%

    Power Punches Lewis - Holyfield 2
    Landed 119- 85
    Thrown 259 -254
    Percent 46% -33%

    Total Punches Lewis - Holyfield 2
    Landed 195 -137
    Thrown 490 -416
    Percent 40%- 33%
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    • Referee:
      This content is protected
    • Judge:
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      116-112
    • Judge:
      This content is protected
      117-111
    • Judge:
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      115-113
    • Unofficial AP scorecard: 116-113 Lewis
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019