Vitali Klitschko vs Jersey Joe Walcott

I got news for some of you..... Sam Peter was indeed a poor boxer of lesser skills, but he was big at his best weight of 238 to 241 pounds and he owned a wallop of a punch, too... Would he out-box a Joe Wally of 1947 to 1951? Hell, no.. But he could get lucky with one or two of them crazy-ass punches he throws and with Wally's so-so jaw, and possibly score a KO.... Sammy Peter was limited to the max in skills, but still dangerous...

MR.BILL

 

Scoring boxing is subjective, and you SAW the fight you are describing.

But two of the three judges were American. Harold Lederman (whose score is given in the HBO tape over at youtube) was American. Jim Lampley and Larry Merchant are American. ALL of them had Klitschko winning 7 or 8 rounds.

Round 6--You scored this round for Byrd? I didn't think he was even competitive in this round. The three rounds I had him competitive in were 5 (I gave it to Byrd), 7 (I gave to Byrd) and 9 (I gave to Klitschko as he appeared to land far more punches and it looked to me--watching this round twice-that he stunned Byrd late in the round.

"He walked him down and made him miss"

He made him miss, I agree. Walking down? I don't know what that means. More often than not when Byrd threw punches Klitschko danced back. I really don't think Byrd landed many effective punches in the whole fight. Most were short or merely brushed a retreating Vitali. He actually jumped a few times in trying to reach the retreating Vitali.

Again--scoring is subjective and I am just scoring the fight I SAW. All I would say is that the judges and the ringside commentators seem to agree with me and not you.

"Jersey Joe is a bit too cute and BRAVE to take this one."

He would not fight Klitschko as he fought Charles and Marciano. He would fight him as he fought Joe Louis, I think.

*Walcott losing. Yes, he did lose quite a bit, but he faced a ton of top rated fighters. In his second career, starting during WWII, which took him to the title, he was stopped only by Louis and Marciano.

**It is worth noting that Vitali was in fact stopped by the two best fighters he faced.

***Comparing these two in records is really difficult, as Walcott had it tough, working as a dockworker and taking fights without proper training during the early years of his career. It was only during his second career that he was able to put a full-time effort into his boxing career.

I don't know that much about life in the Ukraine, but being the son of a Colonel sounds like what we would call an upper-middle class background. Vitali has always been able to devote himself fully to preparing for all his fights. He has always been well fed. Walcott supposedly wasn't always eating well when he fought, as he had to go without to feed his family.

How much of the Walcott stories are true? How much exaggeration? Can't say, but Walcott does seem to have come up through the school of hard knocks. Ironically, that might give him an edge over the hot-house plant Vitali if he faced him inside the boxing ring.

 

Vitali's inept performance against the largely stationary Byrd, missing somewhere between 75% to 80% of his punches to a man relying totally on slippery head movement, makes me wonder how he does with the I think equally slippery head movement of Walcott, who adds very good lateral movement to the mix.

My take is Vitali never fought anyone like Walcott (even Byrd isn't light on his feet). With his long, SLOW, punches, Vitali might not catch the slippery Walcott as easily as you seem to assume.

Watching the film of the Byrd fight, my principle reaction is that Vitali is huge, but rather slow--much slower than Wlad--and that this slowness might make him more vulnerable to a good and much quicker little fighter than you concede.

And, unlike Byrd, Walcott can punch.

**As I posted above, I think it is really difficult to compare Walcott's early career with Vitali's career, as Vitali has been able to devote himself totally to his boxing, while Walcott seems to have had to work to support his family in the early years with boxing being a sideline.

 

I don't understand what nationality has to do with this.

5,6,7 and 9 I gave to chris.

Walked him down as in he forced him and was the ring general.

My problem with jersey is he's an unknown against shw fighters.

 

Why the hell do narrow minded folks always point to V.K.'s sketchy losses to "Byrd and Lewis" to judge him as a fighter??? What happened to all his victories???
:huh

V.K. has never been behind on the cards as a pro boxer... He has never been down on the floor, either...
:deal

V.K. has been a classy champion since 2004 and has been a credit to the biz...
:good

No way in hell does a 6' tall man of 194 pounds even with the trickery of Jersey Joe Walcott beat V.K. in a 12 to 15 rd. scheduled fight with 10 oz. gloves and modern day boxing rules going back as early as 1935.... It ain't gonna happen...
:-(

Jersey Joe has been parked a good half dozen or more times during his pro career of the 1940s and 1950s... Yes, even some of the old all-time greats get beatdown...
:hey

In terms of being a champion, V.K. has blown the lid off the scene and is a solid future IBHOF inductee as well... V.K. is great... Only the haters see it otherwise...
atsch:shock:

In my view, a 1950 version of Joe Wally gets TKO'd by a 2009 version of V.K.
:bbb

MR.BILL:hat

 

Nothing narrow minded about judging a man's skillset on his performances against his best opponents.

After those two we're down at a low level with guys like peter and williams. It seems his level has been well established.

 

Same said about Wally...... Wally was laughed at in 1947 prior to his strong effort against Louis.... Wally had already been beaten and KO'd in previous bouts by less than stellar foe's...

Wally's biggest wins were his 3rd and 4th fights over Buzzard Charles in 1951 and 1952... Charles was all of 6' tall and 185 pounds.... Wally was the heavier / stronger man...

MR.BILL:bbb

 

"I don't understand what nationality has to do with this."

Nothing, really. It is just that the judges who are scoring this fight for Vitali are in fact American, so national bias doesn't seem to be an issue.

Like you, they called it as they saw it, and all of them saw it 7-2 or 8-1 for Vitali.

"Jersey is an unknown against SHW fighters."

it would be impossible for him to have fought someone as tall as Vitali who was any good. However, he did handle Hein Ten Hoff with ease.

**An interesting point here is that Walcott is deemed a certain loser because he never fought anyone as tall as Vitali. The flip side, that Vitali never fought anyone as quick on his feet or elusive as Walcott, and possibly no one with Walcott's reflexes, is not considered.

If bigness alone wins fights, guys like Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Walcott, etc should never have been champions. There were always much bigger guys about.

 

"Walcott's biggest wins were over Charles"

But Walcott beat lots of guys who were much bigger than Charles. Charles was simply better than the big guys.

"Walcott was laughed at in 1947"

Why is the laughter of fools of importance? Walcott had beaten Ray, Bivins, Baksi, Sheppard, Gomez, etc

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

Lewis and Byrd were the two best Vitali fought and he lost to both of them.

Beating scads of second-level fighters doesn't wash that away.

Vitali's record is like Jeffries' record would be if Jeff fought Fitz and Corbett once each and was stopped by both of them. Where would you rate him?

 

Walcott could fight well off the front foot against big guys as seen in the footage of his victory over Hoff. Hoff is no Vitali but he was a technically sound big man, this is an interesting fight.

 

People and oddsmakers treated Walcott like a bum being led to the slaughter in '47 against Louis..... Yes, they were wrong, but that was the general feeling going into the fight... Nobody expected Walcott to go 15 rds and somewhat school Louis in getting robbed....

However, Louis did get his revenge in '48....

Jersey Joe had been KO'd quite a lot......

MR.BILL

 

In his performances against louis, bivins and charles it is fair to say he is more proven at a higher level.

 

Only from a pound-4-pound sense...... Bivins and Charles aren't gonna beat V.K. at all... Joe Louis is the only real chance there...

MR.BILL

 

Aah I see. I don't think he beats Vitaly either. Plays with Peter like Jane though.