Vitali Klitschko vs Joe Louis

1 ) WRONG, Carnera did not win 22 of his last 23. After Louis Ko'd Carera, Primo won 5, lost 3, then retired for a while in 1937. Carnera lost 6 of his last nine in his career.

2 ) I do not think Nussal was ring rated when Carnera beat him in 1935. So Carnera DID NOT win his next fight vs a top 10 opponent.

Rankings

1934
[url]Max Baer[/url], Champion

1. [url]Steve Hamas[/url]
2. [url]Primo Carnera[/url]
3. [url]Art Lasky[/url]
4. [url]Max Schmeling[/url]
5. [url]King Levinsky[/url]
6. [url]Patsy Perroni[/url]
7. [url]Jack Petersen[/url]
8. [url]Natie Brown[/url]
9. [url]Joe Louis[/url]
10. [url]Lee Ramage[/url]

1935
[url]James J. Braddock[/url], Champion

1. [url]Joe Louis[/url]
2. [url]Max Schmeling[/url]
3. [url]Primo Carnera[/url]
4. [url]Charley Retzlaff[/url]
5. [url]Tommy Loughran[/url]
6. [url]Eddie Mader[/url]
7. [url]Hank Hankinson[/url]
8. [url]Ray Impelletiere[/url]
9. [url]Al Ettore[/url]
10. [url]Ford Smith[/url]

And those are the facts.

 

Carnera after Baer floroed him 11 times was not the same. The sign of a shot fight is a step regress. What he did a years ago means nothing. Declines can happen quickly.

Vitlai is not slow. Not even at age 37. Why don't you watch these clips and tell me if Vitlai was slow vs Peter. By the way, Vitlai had better hand speed at age 37 than Louis did for what its worth, and would surley KO the bomber if them meet in the mid 30's.

Let's look at the video and see if Vitlai as you say was slow, slow, slow:

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No, sanders is not slow. He has fast hands. Sanders overall slow? Disagree.

What is that flag in your avatar? Whether you live in Germany or China makes no differnce.

Without a doubt, Vitali has faster feet than Louis. Too bad I can't post side by side comparisons. In additon, Vitlai is harder to hit than Louis.

Louis had problems with PAstor's and Farr's Jabs, which as much weaker, and slower than Vitlai's. Less range too. Louis could not get past Schmeling out fighting either...slow feet and poor defense cost him.

While there is only one Joe Louis, Vitlai did fight a very fast and hard hitting Herrbie Hide. The fight lasted two roudns. In fact, how good with Vitlai's power look with those light old timer gloves and small me in the ring with him?

 

Funny how mendoza mentions carnera getting floored by baer 11 times as some sort of long distance beating. Fact is carnera was ahead on the cards at the time of the stoppage, and outboxed baer all fight long. it wasnt a long term beating.......and carnera subsequent wins show he was anything but a shot fighter.

I disagree, I think louis showed faster hands vs savold in the fight I have of him at age 37. I also dont think vitali looked fast at all vs peter.

 

Carnera was ahead of Baer at the time of the stoppage? I do not beleive this. No way. Post a source please.

 

Referee Arthur Donovan one of 3 officials scorecard read 5 rounds to 5 even after 10 rounds..... according to the new york times.


I am looking at my other article to see what the other 2 officials had it, boxrec claims carnera was ahead on the judges cards entering the 10th.


I myself had it 6 rounds to 4 carnera after 10

 

He was referring to the fact that aside from the Baer fight you have to go back 22 fights to 1932 to find a fight Carnera lost. And, if the source on boxrec is anything to go by, Carnera should have got the nod in that fight. If the boxing commissioner at the fight wasn't misquoted and was right, Carnera was 26-1 in his 27 fights prior to facing Joe Louis.

Those are annual ratings.

 

For help on picking a winner. You should watch the Subtle Skills of Joe Louis video on Youtube. It shows how he counters the jab and much more.

 

Louis would eat up the slow Vitali when he starts to get confident and puts his hands down. He would hit him with quick hook combonations and would work the angles. IMO, Vitali isn't in the same class as Joe Louis, but that's nothing to be ashamed about.

 

Donovan was a horrible judge, and IMO crooked. How can it be 6-4 for Carnera when Bear knocked Primo down 11 times? Are you saying Baer did all his knockdowns in 4 rounds?

 

Yes. Carnera won Rounds 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 clearly. round 5 was questionable.....so I am not suprised the judges and other people had carnera ahead.

 

Keep in mind that the fix was not in for Carnera in his fight against Baer.

 

Carnera won 22 of his last 23 fights before facing Louis. That was what I meant. And this record and the record after his fight with Louis is clear evidence that Carnera slipped after Louis gave him a beating, not before.

I have a book here called "Kampftage" it´s about German pro boxing and in there is written that in 1934 when Schmeling fought Neusel the number three ranked hw fought the number four ranked hw. Neusel lost so he dropped in the rankings but between the Schmeling and the Carnera fight Neusel fought three times in London drawing one time and winning two times against more than solid opposition.
Also those rankings are made at the end of a year. Before the end of 1934 Neusel lost to Schmeling and so may be dropped out of the top ten, fought himself back, then faced Carnera lost and dropped out again. So it is very possible that Neusel was ranked as a top10 fighter before facing Carnera.

 

I don´t think I have to reply on this one, others have done it and I agree with them.

Vitali is slow. I´ve seen every single fight of him that was on TV, I don´t need any clips from you. He is slower than his brother, Lewis and Bowe, the other shws with great athletic ability.
He looked fast against Peter because Peter himself looked like he was 100 year old. If his brother would have been in there it would ave looked the same with Vitali beeing the 100 year old man.

Yes he is, especially the 37 year old, fat, out of shape Sanders Vitali fought.

That´s the flag of Bavaria which I call home. I, like most Bavarians, call myself a Bavarian first and then a German.
And yes it makes a difference. The Klitschko´s were brought up here. I´ve seen every fight of them shown live at TV, I followed their way up when it happened. That´s a difference to just watch clips at youtube.

:nut

Both have weaker jabs, I agree but both are faster of hand and feet than Vitali. Louis could not get past Schmeling, well, Schmeling fought the fight of his live in that one and was a far more proven fighter than Vitali and is an atg. To compare those two is nearly an insult to Schmeling.

Comparing Hide to Joe Louis

After that post of him I tend to agree with you.

 

BIG DEE HERE= The scoring of the fright was at the time of the stoppage was Baer 6rds Carnera 4rds going into the 11th rd. Carnera`s vastly under-rated left jab was the reason as Carnera landed it with authority snapping Baer`s head back with wicked shots. Jack Sharkey went to his grave talking about
the difference between Carnera`s left jab in their first fight and the title fight.
Sharkey said that in the first fight it wasn`t that hard or accurate but in the title fight it was hard, damn hard and shook you all the way to your heels.
Sharkey said by the title fight he had learned a lot that he didn`t know in the first fight.

 

Big Dee. The referee had it 5 rounds to 5 what did the other 2 officials have it?


boxrec claims carnera was ahead. and on my scorecard i had carnera ahead