Vitali Klitschko vs. Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Hookie, Sep 10, 2012.


Page 4 of 5
  1. gator

    gator New Member Full Member

    6
    0
    Sep 15, 2012
    Vitali by wide UD,or possibly a stoppage.He's too damn big & he's a master at using his size to his advantage.
     
    gator, Sep 17, 2012
    gator, Sep 17, 2012
    #46
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,069
    27,896
    Jun 2, 2006
    You believe Vitali is better than Lewis and Tyson?
     
    mcvey, Sep 17, 2012
    mcvey, Sep 17, 2012
    #47
  3. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,116
    107
    Oct 9, 2008
    V.K. would tower over Liston by several (6 inches or so) inches and can actually box with lateral movement while sticking his opponent with often ugly looking, but effective punches... V.K. is a master of keeping his range and opponent right where he wants them... V.K. is also physically stronger than Liston was, as well...

    Liston would find out fast that V.K. is way better than dude's like Cleveland Williams, Floyd Patterson or Scrap Iron Johnson......

    Liston at his best fighting weight of 212 pounds would not size up well against the hulking 248 pound V.K.

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Sep 17, 2012
    MRBILL, Sep 17, 2012
    #48
    ascended likes this.
  4. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

    8,710
    27
    Jun 1, 2012
    Liston his shots are extremely telegraphed.
    His reflexes were decent, and he was pretty quick on the feet. But with those out of proportion arms you're getting some of the most telegraphed punches.
    (In exchange, Rocky Marciano used his arms really well, full control over. But Liston is probably too much for Marciano, though his defence is underrated.
     
    dyna, Sep 17, 2012
    dyna, Sep 17, 2012
    #49
    ascended likes this.
  5. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,394
    2,910
    Feb 17, 2008

    The best since Larry at ending combos with a jab to re-set his distance on the outside. Correct. Who do you think was better?
     
    zadfrak, Sep 18, 2012
    zadfrak, Sep 18, 2012
    #50
  6. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Pounchin powar calculateur Full Member

    2,372
    87
    Sep 13, 2012
    I like Vitali in this one.
     
    Colonel Sanders, Sep 18, 2012
    Colonel Sanders, Sep 18, 2012
    #51
    ascended likes this.
  7. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

    7,054
    376
    Dec 19, 2009
    34-24-1 draw for Liston. I don't get it, but it doesn't surprise me.
     
    Hookie, Sep 18, 2012
    Hookie, Sep 18, 2012
    #52
  8. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,116
    107
    Oct 9, 2008
    Liston fought a lot of 200 pounders who were not all that good or powerful... His biggest foe was likely Cleveland Williams who could slug, but didn't know how to box for **** and owned a glass-jaw, too......

    And Liston beating Eddie Machen by decision in 1960 was a snoozer to the maxi-pad...

    Liston was great, but he never really fought a long list of big mothers who were truly talented until he ran into Clay / Ali......

    Even Leo Martin was smallish in 1969 if you wanna get technical.... I don't care if Liston was 137 yrs old at the time, he was KTFO by Martin......

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Sep 18, 2012
    MRBILL, Sep 18, 2012
    #53
    ascended likes this.
  9. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

    7,054
    376
    Dec 19, 2009
    Liston was great.

    Vitali is underrated by a lot of people. He is from the modern era and won't be fully respected until several years after he retires.

    It seems that Vitali gets judged soley on his two losses. One of the losses was in early 2000, the other in June of 2003. He most definately peaked after his loss in 2003. Since his last loss he is 13-0 (10) overall and 12-0 (9) in HW World Title Fights.

    Let's look at those losses for a minute.

    In 2000 he outboxed the 6'1" 210 Lb slick boxing, very fast, very durable, southpaw Chris Byrd for 8 out of 9 rounds... HOWEVER, he quit after the 9th round due to a torn rotator cuff. He regrets quitting and will never live it down. Does anybody doubt that he would have beat Byrd in a rematch?

    In 2003 on short notice he took on the 6'5" 250 Lb Lennox Lewis and won 4 out of 6 rounds... HOWEVER, the fight was stopped after 6 rounds due to cuts. Vitali wanted to continue and show he wasn't a quitter.

    Vitali and Byrd never fought again but in Byrd's next fight he was dropped twice and outboxed over 12 rounds by Vitali's younger brother Wladimir. In their rematch Wladimir stopped Byrd in the 7th round.

    On a side note, Vitali avenged his brother's losses to Ross Puritty (KO11, Puritty stopped Wlad in the 11th) and Corrie Sanders (KO8, Sanders stopped Wlad in the 2nd round).

    Vitali also beat Same Peter (KO in the 8th, Peter dropped Wlad 3 times and lost a somewhat close decision. In their rematch Wlad stopped Peter in the 10th round.

    So, the losses to Lewis and Byrd which were 9 and 12 years ago. The wins over Puritty, Sanders, and Peter. Just looking at those fights alone, make him a viable HW.

    As bad as Puritty was, a prime Puritty was durable and hard hitting at 6'3" with an 80" reach and 250 solid Lbs. Sanders was fast, powerful, and a southpaw at 6'4" and 235 Lbs. Peter was a monster at 6'2" and 250 Lbs. Liston never had to fight big and powerful guys like these.

    Byrd is considered a small HW but compared to most of the guys Liston fought he's plenty big enough. Now, consider Byrd's skill and durability and you have a very good HW. Yes, Byrd won... but it wasn't easy and he was never ahead on points.

    Lewis is one of the best HWs ever. Past prime Lewis or not, Vitali fought a very good fight. Also, understand that Vitali got even better after this fight. Lewis retired and they never fought again.

    Some of you act like this is all Vitali has done... what about his wins over Herbie Hide KO2, Larry Donald KO10, Kirk Johnson KO2, Chris Arreola KO10, Tomasz Adamek KO10, and others?

    Hell, guys like Dicky Ryan (KO2), a past prime Orlin Norris (KO1), and Jose Ribalta (KO5) would be considered half decent back in the day. Even Levi Billups (KO2) and Julius Francis (KO2) would get a little respect
     
    Hookie, Sep 18, 2012
    Hookie, Sep 18, 2012
    #54
  10. DaveK

    DaveK Vicious & Malicious Full Member

    3,668
    35
    Mar 2, 2009
    You could make the same argument for plenty of good/greats...

    I'll say it again: Just because you didn't have the opportunity to fight better competition doesn't mean you couldn't have done well against it.

    Lots of guys are "inexperienced" when they step up and do get the opportunity. Lots of times they prove they belong.
     
    DaveK, Sep 18, 2012
    DaveK, Sep 18, 2012
    #55
  11. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,479
    1,599
    Aug 18, 2012
    Do you see that both brothers can't really fight? Slow and plodding. Watch them fight and ask yourself do you see fast combinations, counters, defensive moves of a great fighter? The answer is absolutely not!
     
    HOUDINI, Sep 19, 2012
    HOUDINI, Sep 19, 2012
    #56
  12. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,116
    107
    Oct 9, 2008
    The K-Bros. are great.........

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Sep 19, 2012
    MRBILL, Sep 19, 2012
    #57
    ascended likes this.
  13. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,271
    59
    Jul 15, 2007
    Look what happened when Lennox Lewis forced him to fight? Totally unlike any other fight that Vitali has ever been in - he's still as inexperienced now too. Exciting effort by both and from Vitali no negativity!!?? Although didn't seem to really try a proper punch back for first couple of minutes of fight? No relying on his height and reach in this one and he was rattled in every round - sometimes twice a round - and at least his clutching in this one was more adrenalin charged - it was simultaneously his best and his worst fight. And it is the only fight where we've even seen Vitali getting shown what fighting is all about really - he did try his best but in reality there was only one guy in that ring who really knew how to fight - this fight for me shows me what would happen were Vitali to fight any great top 15ish all time heavyweight - had it been a prime Lewis in there I think it would've been a lot worse - and a lot quicker and I rate Liston a much greater and much badder heavyweight - I think Vitali gets smashed here I really do
     
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 19, 2012
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 19, 2012
    #58
  14. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,116
    107
    Oct 9, 2008
    Let's not go overboard with "Lewis-Klit" of '03... It was a great fight on the whole... Too bad a nasty pair of cuts caused the stoppage after 6 brutal rds of heat... Lewis won the fight in the end, but V.K. stole the night and event during the aftermath... Considering Lewis retired afterward and V.K. went on to take control of the division, nobody really lost on that June night in L.A. back in 2003...

    MR.BILL
     
    MRBILL, Sep 19, 2012
    MRBILL, Sep 19, 2012
    #59
  15. Rex Tickard

    Rex Tickard Active Member Full Member

    818
    14
    Dec 29, 2012
    Lewis and Sanders are both 6'5", 240-pound bombers.

    Liston was around 6', 215 pounds, and has been hurt, down, and stopped or KO'd by fighters weighing no more than 215 pounds and as little as 180 pounds - which was the typical weight range of nearly all of his opponents.
     
    Rex Tickard, May 27, 2013
    Rex Tickard, May 27, 2013
    #60
    ascended likes this.
Page 4 of 5