Vitali Klitschko vs Sonny Liston

I am not a Klit supporter just because I disagree with some of your ridiculous hypocritical nonsense. You're a far bigger nuthugger than anyone else on this board, and rating Liston at #2 all time only confirms it.

Klitschko admitted to the Ukranian athletic board that he was taking a steroid for a medical condition, but that it wasn't a performance enhancer. Frankly, I think its fishy myself, but you can't just make assumptions on an isolated case like that.

 

Very good post.

I too agree that this fight would not be a guaranteed win for either Liston or V.Klitschko, but I certainly think that its not entirely out of the question that Vitali could take it, and even if he didn't, it would be a close fight. Some seem to feel that just because Liston looked invincible against a 5'11", 190 LB Patterson who was knocked down 17 times in his career, that the same would apply to Vitali Klitschko who was nearly 6'8", 245 Lbs, and was never floored. I don't understand this menatality.

 

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These are true points, and I agree that Sanders was off for 13 months and showed up at 235 against Vitali, as opposed to 225 against Wlad. Still, he was in half way decent shape, showed great handspeed, and was coming off the best win of his career against the concencus best in the world, or second best given that Lewis was still active in early 2003. Nevertheless, Vitali won that fight convincingly and against a legitimate contender. Sanders was not great per say, but I would argue that he was a sound challenger who even at age 38 and with a 13 month layoff behind him could have competed against a lot of great fighters. Look at the way he destroyed Wlad. Look at the shots he tool from Vitali and still returned fire. He was a competitor Suzie, just like Walcott was. Let's try and be fare about this...

Agreed, in fact it was I who supported your criticisms toward him a few days ago by pointing out that 10 fighters had rejected Wlad's offer to fight him in 2003.

Yes, this was not the best example of a fighter who Sanders beat. Czyz was clearly a shot fighter and one who had no business mixing it up with heavyweights, but Sanders did a pretty good job of dusting Bert Cooper, and outboxing a very tough Purity as well as a few others. Sanders had a thin resume, but that was partially because fighters were avoiding him. Look at what happened when he finally got his shot...

 

Fair enough,

I had the Mercer fight a draw as well.. Not the best performance for Lewis given Mercer's poor run over the previous 4 years.

 

I don't know that much about Elmer Ray, but your point is well taken.

 

Both were controversial outcomes, and ones that Vitali had little control over when it came time to the stoppages. There is more to boxing history than just trusting boxrec.

Joe Walcott was 37 years old, had lost 16 pro fights, was coming off a crippling career, and is commonly rated lower on an all time list than Lewis. Yet, he was leading the scorecards against Marciano, and if the fight had been scheduled for 12 rounds, he may have beaten the Rock. What would you have said then? He also floored Rocky in the first round and led him throught most of the fight, something that Lewis did not do to Klitschko.

This is incorrect. Herbie Hide was 28 years old. He had a record of 31-1-0-30. He was in tremendous shape. In his only loss, he had a prime Riddick Bowe nearly out on his feet. He was holding the WBO title, making him an unmistakeably rated fighter. He was 6'2", 221 Lbs, and solid muscle, a description that most of Liston's opponents didn't quite fit.

Result- Vitali KO 2 Hide.

Notes- You might argue that Hide was not world class, or that he had no chin, but your original claim has already been well refuted.

Klitshcko had a well documented history of having recurring injuries, possibly due to his prior kickboxing career. I doubt that he and his handlers would go through the touble on 4 occasions, to pull a media stunt. His injuries were legit in my opinion, and frankly, I think it would have been just as easy if not easier to just retire, rather than try and pull a hoax. He was also supposed to fight Sam Peter this year for a world title and a lot of money, but he's still having trouble keeping his joints in shape, and is now considering running for Governor in the country that he lives in.

Is this all a media hoax too?

This is where we seem to have the most trouble agreeing. You have a 6'8, 245Lb muscle man, who:

1. was never floored or truly knocked down.

2. Has lost fewer rounds than anyone in history

3. Has the highest KO percentage of any fighter.

4. Has only lost two fights to highly rated fighters, in bouts that he was handedly winning, but was forced to resign against his own will.


Do you really think that this would be a fight between a small all time great fighter versus a mindless shithead who couldn't hold his own?

Well, if Wayne Bethea, Jimmy Summerlin, Marty Marshall and a few others weren't ham and eggers than I don't know what to tell you. He also looked like **** against a few of those guys. And frankly, I don't think that Klitschko's opponents were all ham and eggers.