Vitali Klitschko's power.

So did the Wlad vs Haye foght contract have these clauses? If not, then it's all BS.

 

There are always reasons not to fight a mandatory contender.

It isn't. The champion has an obligation to face the best opponents out there. Lewis wasn't the end all be all - he was the top dog that everybody wanted a shot at. If we want to have a meritocracy in boxing, we can't allow for champions to duck contenders, wjatever the reason is. Lewis didn't need Byrd, but Byrd needed Lewis. There are always two sides of the coin. And, based on merit, Byrd should have gotten the shot. Otherwise, cash cows can duck formidable contenders, cause they aren't marketable.

He was flip flopping. One time he was saying he will retire, then he chased the Tyson rematch, then he discussed a 3 fight deal when after beating Tyson he would face 2 Klitschkos. At the end of the day, a lot of it was just talk. He ducked Byrd, sit by when Wlad got destroyed by Sanders and at the end of the day he signed to fight Kirk Johnson - a guy who clearly didn't deserve the shot before Byrd.

The whole thing is, Vitali wasn't a better commercial option than Byrd. He was even lower on the totem poll as his fights weren't even broadcasted in the USA at the time. You can't argue for keeping eyes on Vitali as a better business strategy, as, for one, he didn't have a commercial appeal, and for the second, Lewis didn't even have eyes on Vitali at the time. The timeline was: Lewis vs Tyson fight > Mike enacts the rematch clause which gives Lewis an option to face Byrd > Lewis doesn't want to face him and drops the belt > Lewis still waits for the Tyson rematch and taking a Kirk Johnson fight > Johnson gets injured and Vitali steps in as a replacement. Lewis wasn't thiinking about Vitali until June 2003.

All happened AFTER Lewis already ducked Byrd, after he dropped the belt and after he chose to fight Johnson, not Vitali.

I brought up Wlad just because he was the only fighter that Lewis could have taken on that wouldn't make him a ducker due to not fighting Byrd. If he fought Wlad, who was widely seen as the number 2 in the division, it would be ok for him to drop the belt not to fight Byrd, as he would taken on a bigger challenge. Vitali wasn't seen as such at the time. And Kitk Johnsoin definitely wasn't.

And sure, stating that Byrd was as marketable as Vitali is not a credible perspective, since he was more marketable. At least in 2002 in USA. If Vitali would be marketable he would be fighting on HBO or Showtime, not Byrd, cause he would have brought in more money, right?

 

When Haye vs Wlad finally happened it was a 50/50 split with no rematch clause. My feeling is Wlad no there was a ton of money on the table and really wanted the fight made. Here is a little info on the negotiations and previous (2009) negotiations.

Contract Breakdown and Revenue Sharing

• Split: Equal 50-50 division of all total revenue streams.
• No Rematch: No obligation for a second fight in the case of an upset.
• Free Agency: Haye could fight anyone immediately if victorious.
• Ticket Allocation: Haye's team received 7,000 tickets for his British fans.
• Venue: Staged at the Imtech Arena in Hamburg, Germany. [1, 2, 3, 4]

The 2009 Failed Negotiations

• Initial Offer: Klitschko's team demanded a three-fight contract.
• Options: Haye would have been tied to rematches with either brother.
• Rejection: Haye refused these terms.
• Cancellation: Haye withdrew, citing a back injury and unfair terms. [1, 2, 3, 4]

I dont think its BS at all. Two fighters on record claiming the same thing. I n both instances fights with Vitaly didn't materialize. Instead of pricing himself out Vits put unreasonable demands in the contract. No reasonable person would go for that.

 

@MaccaveliMacc

Would I be right in believing that you didn't live through the era in question – which is why you can't get the history and its chain of events straight? You do seem to be just hedging with more or less random dot-joining and bent lines, drawing conclusions on the faintest of connections.

Since there's little I can say that I haven't done already, I will make this my last post on the matter.

Please find some news clippings below...


PART I
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The Courier-Journal

Louisville, Kentucky

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BOXING

WBC Ratings

Through April 2002 (American unless noted) Heavyweight (over 190 pounds)
Champion: Lennox Lewis, Britain.
1, Mike Tyson.

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3, Hasim Rahman.
4, Evander Holyfield.
5. Oliver McCall.
6, Juan Carlos Gomez, Cuba.
7, David Tua, New Zealand.
8, Fres Oquendo.
9, Chris Byrd.
10, Jameel McCline.



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The Record

Hackensack, New Jersey
Tuesday, May 28, 2002


BOXING

Former WBO heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko has accepted a July 20 bout against an undetermined opponent in Germany. Klitschko is the

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Daily News

New York, New York
Sunday, June 09, 2002


With Tyson down, Lewis may go out

By TIM SMITH DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER MEMPHIS


[excerpt]
Many people expect Lewis, 36, to retire from boxing, having proven everything he could in the past six years. Lewis said he has no interest in meeting Evander Holyfield again, and the idea of fighting

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does not excite him.

"I think he should retire," said Harold Knight, his co-trainer. "He's done everything. He should just let these young guys do what they're going to do."

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The Post-Star

Glens Falls, New York

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Boxing

WBC Ratings

(

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) Note: American unless noted Heavyweight (over 190 pounds)

Champion: Lennox Lewis, Britain.

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2, Evander Holyfield.
3, Hasim Rahman.
4, Mike Tyson.
5, Jameel McCline.
6, David Tua, New Zealand.
7, Fres Oquendo.
8, Chris Byrd.
9, Juan Carlos Gomez, Cuba.
10, Danny Williams, Britain.




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The Florida Times-Union

Jacksonville, Florida

Tuesday, July 02, 2002


BOXING

WBC Ratings

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(American unless noted) Heavyweight (over 190 pounds)

Champion: Lennox Lewis, Britain.

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2, Evander Holyfield.
3, Hasim Rahman.
4, Mike Tyson.
5, Jameel McCline.
6, David Tua, New Zealand.
7, Fres Oquendo.
8, Chris Byrd.
9, Juan Carlos Gomez, Cuba.
10, Danny Williams, Britain.



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The Guardian

London, Greater London, England
Friday, September 06, 2002


Lewis back for Tyson rematch

John Rawling

[excerpt]
Lennox Lewis has rejected plans for a December fight against the American southpaw Chris Byrd

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.

... ... ... ... ...

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, remembered by British fans for knocking out Herbie Hide in London to win the World Boxing Organisation title.

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Tampa Bay Times

St. Petersburg Times
St. Petersburg, Florida

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In Brief...

BOXING:

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PART II
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Evening Standard

London, Greater London, England
Friday, October 18, 2002


Sport in brief

Lewis wrestles with new role as he fulfils boyhood dream


BOXING

[excerpt]
Negotiations are thought to be taking place for Lewis to defend his World Boxing Council belt against Ukraine's Vitali Klitschko in Las Vegas on 25 January, although he said: "That has no status right now."

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USA Today

McLean, Virginia
Wednesday, October 23, 2002


Scheduling conflict puts HBO in bind

Jones, Lewis fights planned for March

By Dan Rafael USA TODAY


Roy Jones Jr. and Lennox Lewis, among boxing's biggest stars, are fighting each other. Not in the ring, mind you, but on the calendar.

Jones, the light Boxing heavyweight champ, has agreed to move up to heavyweight to face titlist John Ruiz on March 1 in Las Vegas.

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which won't schedule them in the same month.

Originally, promoters Don King and Murad Muhammad were planning on Ruiz-Jones for Feb. 1. They switched to March 1 after securing a site deal worth more than attor $7 million from Park Place Entertainment to host the fight at Las Vegas' Thomas & Mack Center.

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Evening Standard

London, Greater London, England •
Fri, Nov 29, 2002
Page 85


Lewis to Face Klitschko for Title

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Adrian Ogun said he had to clear the final details with pay-TV channel HBO before saying where and when the fight would be.
However it is likely to be staged in late February or early March in the United States.
Lewis holds the WBC title but gave up his IBF crown in September because he had no interest in a mandatory defence against No 1 contender Chris Byrd Klitschko 31 has won 32 of his 33 professional fights 31 by knockout.


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The Bolton News

Bolton, Greater Manchester, England
Saturday, November 30, 2002


Lewis plots title defence

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. A date and venue have yet to be finalised, but the fight is expected to take place in Las Vegas in either the last week in February or the first week in March 2003.

Klitschko, a former European and WB0 champion, has won 32 of his 33 bouts, with the only defeat coming when he suffered an injured shoulder during a clash with American Chris Byrd in April 2000.

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At a press conference in Hamburg, Lewis' manager

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"We still have to discuss the date and site, but we wanted to wait for the result of the Donald fight.

"Lennox Lewis thinks very highly of both Klitschkos. He knows them personally since he and Wladimir starred in the movie Ocean's Eleven. He respects them personally and professionally. Lewis knows that they are the biggest challenges for him."



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Northwest Herald

Woodstock, Illinois
Mon, Dec 2, 2002
Page 20


Champion Lewis Ready to Defend Title

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LONDON - Heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis is planning three fights starting in March, including bouts against Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko and a rematch with Mike Tyson.

"

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" Lewis told the BBC on Sunday.

"My negotiating team has a preliminary agreement in place for that fight, as well as fights against Mike Tyson and Wladimir Klitschko in the event that I decide to continue fighting after the Vitali Klitschko fight."

Lennox, 37, expects the contract for the bout against Vitali Klitschko to be finalized within two weeks.

Lewis' manager, Adrian Ogun, said Friday the site and exact date will be set as soon as possible. Ogun also said promoters will meet in the next few days with representatives from HBO, which will broadcast the fight, to complete arrangements.

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But the BBC reported Lewis will take on Vitali Klitschko in March, then give Tyson a rematch and finally face Klitschko's brother Wladimir, the WBO titleholder.

Tyson is scheduled to return to the ring for the first time since his defeat by Lewis when he fights Clifford Etienne, also in Memphis, on Feb. 22.


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PART III
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Daily News

New York, New York
Tue, Jan 21, 2003
Page 69

For Gloves, day at Beach

The Daily News Golden Gloves will open the 2003 tournament with two nights of boxing starting Thursday in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn. Friday night the tournament swings up to Harlem. Opening night 2003 will be held at Atlantic Oceana, a 1,500-seat Russian nightclub on Brighton Beach Ave. Having produced a pair of Russian-born champions - - Dmitriy Salita and Yuri Foreman in 2001, it makes perfect sense for the Gloves to make a stop in the heart of the city's Russian community. Both boxers are expected to be on hand, as will several other Russian boxers and athletes.

Don't look for the Klitschko brothers.

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, he and his brother Wladimir have canceled their scheduled appearance.

Bouts start at 8 p.m. - Bill Farrell.


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Statesman Journal

Salem, Oregon
Sat, Jan 25, 2003
Page 2


Lewis Considering Rematch with Tyson

Lennox Lewis says his next fight may be a rematch with Mike Tyson in June.

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. Burnstein said Lewis will watch how Tyson fights Feb. 22 against Clifford Etienne in Memphis. Lewis stopped Tyson in the eighth round of their heavyweight championship fight June 8, and neither fighter has fought since.


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Star-Gazette

Elmira, New York
Sat, Jan 25, 2003
Page 5


MORNING BRIEFING

BOXING

Lewis-Tyson Rematch could be Possible

Lennox Lewis says his next fight may be a rematch with Mike Tyson in June.

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. Burnstein said Lewis will watch how Tyson does Feb. 22 against Clifford Etienne in Memphis. "Now that there will be no April fight, Lennox has a contractual obligation to consider Mike Tyson as his June opponent and looks forward to seeing how Tyson performs in his February fight against Clifford Etienne," Burnstein said.

Lewis stopped Tyson in the eighth round of their much-anticipated heavyweight championship fight June 8, and neither fighter has fought since. Both fighters had a rematch clause in their contracts for that fight.



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The Republican

Union-News
Springfield, Massachusetts
Wednesday, April 02, 2003


Morning briefing

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, perhaps in Buffalo, N.Y. Possible opponents for Lewis include No. 1-ranked Vitali Klitschko, Kirk Johnson or Buffalo's Joe Mesi. Tyson's fight would be against someone along the lines of his last opponent, perhaps a fading Oleg Maskaev.



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USA Today

McLean, Virginia
Monday, April 07, 2003


Lewis closer to fight vs Johnson, but Klitschko a possibility

By Dan Rafael USA TODAY


Heavyweight champ Lennox Lewis will fight June 21, more than a year after his last bout, a legacy-sealing knockout of Mike Tyson.

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(34-1-1, 25 KOs), with whom Lewis' representatives were close to finalizing a deal after negotiating through the weekend.

"We are very, very close," Johnson co-manager Ken Lilien said Sunday. "We've cleared the biggest hurdle, the purse. I'm very confident the deal will get done.", Johnson's package would be worth about $1.4 million.

Still to be ironed out are details concerning a rematch clause and logistics. Lewis attorney Judd Burstein said, "There's no deal done yet, but I think we're close."

"The main stuff we're working on is non-purse related," said Dino Duva, Johnson's promoter. "We're really excited about this opportunity for Kirk Johnson."



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Fort Worth Star-Telegram

Fort Worth, Texas
Saturday, April 12, 2003


Deal set for Johnson-Lewis fight

By TRAE THOMPSON STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER ARLINGTON


Signed. Sealed. Can he deliver?

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, according to Johnson's promoter, Dino Duva, and trainer Curtis Cokes. The fight will be shown on HBO pay-per-view. The site is still undetermined.

Buffalo, N.Y., and East Rutherford, N.J., have been mentioned as possible locations. "We've signed the contracts," Duva said Friday. "I've been assured it's a done deal."

Duva said

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, making for a high-profile heavyweight boxing doubleheader. Johnson, the World Boxing Organization Inter-Continental champion, will reportedly receive between $1 million and $2 million for the fight, though Duva would not confirm a payout.



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...hope this helps you draw straighter lines and join better dots.

 

3 things: 1) There are multiple publications (including other boxing websites) that list Vitali at 6'8. He's taller than 6'7 and it's pretty clear when you see him stand against other fighters (including Lewis). 2) Who said anything about nationality? 3) I told you I would get the Lewis rankings.

 

I don't quite understand the context of the statement, but it's quite interesting.
I've read here several times that Lewis was surprised by Vitali because he never expected to fight him, and Vitali did. Meanwhile, as the article says, Lennox expected him to compete against the brothers a year before the actual fight.

In any case, I still don't understand what Kirk Johnson is doing against Chris Byrd. If Byrd wasn't financially attractive, Kirk wasn't either.

Interestingly, I've heard repeatedly that Bowe and Tyson did a duck's job against Lewis, even though Lewis in 1993, and especially in 1996, was in a similar position to Byrd in 2002: an uncomfortable opponent, little reward, high risk. For some reason I don't yet understand, not fighting Lewis is a duck's job, not fighting Byrd is not. Let's remember that in 1996, Lewis was known primarily for being quickly knocked out by Tyson's sparring partner, and trained by Steward, he dealt with Mercer as effectively as a battered Jesse Ferguson. I still hope someone will explain this properly.

 

Good find that should out any doubt to bed!

 

If you don't understand how events unfold over a timeline, and each one of them, therefore, has its own context, then I can't help you.

Good luck on your quest, however.

 

Vitali claims to be 200cm which is just under 6'7.

 

I think you were replying to someone. Why was Kirk Johnson ahead of Byrd? But I don't think you know why yourself, since according to the articles you cited, Byrd was still ranked higher than Johnson, was more commercially attractive, more attractive athletically, more valued by experts, and a fight with him would have allowed me to retain the IBF belt. Maybe you mixed up the articles?

If someone tells me to keep looking and avoid discussion, I'm not offended, but it's a sign that they simply lack arguments.
But good luck off cource

 

If you don't understand how events unfold over a timeline, and each one of them, therefore, has its own context, then I can't help you.

Perhaps if you started "looking" you might be in a position to have a "discussion".

You're not the one who should be offended. The arguments have already been made, and you're not adding anything new.

 

No problem. So you proved that Kirk Johnson deserved a chance more than Chris Byrd?

 

You started talking about Brits being biased towards Lewis,and I made it clear nationalities do not enter into it as far as I am concerned.
Celebs Heights 6' 7in.
Sportsmens Heights 6' 7in
Mr Height 6' 7in
Box Rec 6' 7in and finally
Klitschko.com 6' 7in
I guess Vitali knows how tall he is?