Vitali Klitschko's power.

Then create a list of all the men Lewis ducked.
Lewis fought longer than Vitali.
Lewis beat Ring ranked men 15 times!
The last survey done on this forum , one I participated in ,was in 2020 it went as follows.

1Ali
2.Louis
3.Holmes
4.Lewis
5.Marciano
6.Foreman
7.Frazier
8.Johnson
9.Tyson
10.Holyfield
A Ring magazine panel of experts had them like this.
1.Ali
2.Louis
3.Marciano
4.Johnson
5.Holmes
6.Tyson
7.Foreman
8.Holyfield
9.Lewis
10.Liston

 

If you do the math that's 12 years active for Vits and 14 for Lewis. And I never said Lewis was the second best heavyweight, but that he fought in the second best heavyweight era? Do you dispute ANY of this?

 

We've discussed this before and I've clarified the matter for you in the past.

To assert that "

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" is partly true, in a very small way.

Tyson activating the rematch clause persuaded Lewis against doing the one thing he most wanted - which was to retire. However, I imagine another big-money fight for the pension fund would have been ideal from Lewis's perspective. So, this match almost certainly became the driver behind him staying active.

But, to be clear, Lewis didn't choose Tyson over Byrd. It's more the case that the required build-up towards Lewis/Tyson II was never going to feature a fighter like Byrd. Moreover, Lewis by this time was referring to both the Klitschkos as fighters he was interested in while he remained active. Byrd was not viewed or discussed as a serious option.

The free money to Lewis, paid by King, for not fighting Byrd, was just the icing on the cake.

Before 2002 was out, talk of the Vitali fight for early/Spring 2003 was already being circulated. I seem to recall Vitali wanting the fight before the end of 2002, but Lewis had already declared he wouldn't fight again that year. In any event, their talks collapsed.

So, when you state that the "

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", this is, again, partly true, because it implies Lewis and Vitali hadn't been in talks since the second half of 2002. Lewis's intention had been to fight Klitschko before the Tyson rematch.

Recalling that Tyson had already pulled out of what was supposed to be a double-header event, followed by Johnson pulling out of the Lewis bout, brought the match-up into sharp focus, forcing the hands of both Lewis and Vitali.

Stating "

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" is true only on paper. He was commercially non-viable. Vitali was commercially viable, which is why he was always part of the Staples Center card and Byrd wasn't.

 

Tyson didn't activate the rematch clause. It was Lennox who pursued the rematch, but ultimately, the talks amounted to nothing, as Tyson didn't want to fight him again. Pursuing a rematch with a fighter you just beat up and dropping a belt not to fight a Top 3 guy who is your mandatory is a blatant duck. When Lewis dropped the IBF belt Vitali wasn't even a WBC mandatory. The public was hyping up the fight with Wlad, not Vitali, as the younger Klitschko was seen as a heir apparent to the throne and number 2 HW in the world. There was a reason why it was Wlad fighting against Lewis in Ocean's 11. In the meahwile, Vitali still suffered from stigma after he quit againt Byrd, being called Quitchko and B*tchko. He also was fighting obscure competition in Germany and wasn't on anyone's radar comercially. He was seen as boring and unappealing. Lewis vs Vitali was called a fight that no one wanted to see by The Ring Magazine. All changed when Wlad lost to Sanders and Lewis turned his attention to Vitali. But it was months after Lewis dropped the IBF belt.

 

It was a practice at the time to avoid unification such at Tate -Holmes (Big John was a favorite to beat Holmes at the time) and the practice continued when Holmes fought 19-8 Mike Weaver and both men were surprised how well Weaver did - Weaver gained confidence and went on to beat Tate but no unification with Holmes. Holmes then gave up a title not to fight Greg Page (who was erratic and not consistent but a threat to Holmes) then Dokes, then Pinklon Thomas, Gerrie Coetzee, while Holmes fought the likes of 10 fight Marvis Frazier, 14 fight David Bey, 10-2 Leon Spinks (who was ko'd in 1 rd. 2 years earlier by Coetzee. Holmes did not fight the best of his division. Holmes also never rematched tough fights or controversial fights like Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams.

I am not pointing the finger at you specifically but the double standard of the board and how certain fighters are overlooked. The Klitschko's dominated the division, but some could say they did it as a team either way they have a large collection of scalps.

I think many on this board are not consistent, some of them are too young to remember but you have been around. Anyway, we all have our biases and favorites.

 

Lewis was fortunate he opened a cut on Vitali and from the fight Vitali gained much confidence - Lewis did stay retired and turned down tremendous money rematch, but did Vitali convince him?

 

Oh, I didn't know you spoke to Vitali because you know what he wanted and did not want. He publicly called out Valuev and his brother stopped Rulslan Chagaev (who beat Valuev) his brother also beat Ibraimov and Povetkin pretty dominantly.

 

First of all, I am not a blind fan but try to be fair. thing is many on this board do not use the same discernment with fighter they like. If we are consistent, we can call out everyone, and Holmes used the split tiles and his influence King built with the WBC. In the case of the Klitschko's you can argue they dominated the heavyweight division collectively. Between the 2 they have quite impressive collection of scalps.

During the Holmes era and why I bring it up. It was a practice at the time Holmes era to avoid unification such at Tate -Holmes (Big John was a favorite to beat Holmes at the time) and the practice continued when Holmes fought 19-8 Mike Weaver and both men were surprised how well Weaver did - Weaver gained confidence and went on to beat Tate but no unification with Holmes. Holmes then gave up a title not to fight Greg Page (who was erratic and not consistent but a threat to Holmes because of his sneaky right hand) then Dokes, then Pinklon Thomas, Gerrie Coetzee, while Holmes fought the likes of 10 fight Marvis Frazier, 14 fight David Bey, 10-2 Leon Spinks (who was ko'd in 1 rd. 2 years earlier by Coetzee. Holmes did not fight the best of his division. Holmes also never rematched tough fights or controversial fights like Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams.


I think many on this board are not consistent, some of them are too young to remember but they call the pot black but not the kettle

Anyway, we all have our biases and favorites. Enjoy yours!

 

QUOTE="Bummy Davis, post: 23846551, member: 643"]First of all, I am not a blind fan but try to be fair. thing is many on this board do not use the same discernment with fighter they like. If we are consistent, we can call out everyone, and Holmes used the split tiles and his influence King built with the WBC. In the case of the Klitschko's you can argue they dominated the heavyweight division collectively. Between the 2 they have quite impressive collection of scalps.

During the Holmes era and why I bring it up. It was a practice at the time Holmes era to avoid unification such at Tate -Holmes (Big John was a favorite to beat Holmes at the time) and the practice continued when Holmes fought 19-8 Mike Weaver and both men were surprised how well Weaver did - Weaver gained confidence and went on to beat Tate but no unification with Holmes. Holmes then gave up a title not to fight Greg Page (who was erratic and not consistent but a threat to Holmes because of his sneaky right hand) then Dokes, then Pinklon Thomas, Gerrie Coetzee, while Holmes fought the likes of 10 fight Marvis Frazier, 14 fight David Bey, 10-2 Leon Spinks (who was ko'd in 1 rd. 2 years earlier by Coetzee. Holmes did not fight the best of his division. Holmes also never rematched tough fights or controversial fights like Tim Witherspoon and Carl Williams.


I think many on this board are not consistent, some of them are too young to remember but they call the pot black but not the kettle

Anyway, we all have our biases and favorites. Enjoy yours![/QUOTE]
Holmes fought 17 Ring ranked opponents,and his win over Mercer at the age of 42 is better than anything Vitali ever did.Holmes resume shits all over Vitali's.
What are Vitali's 3 best wins?
Now how about you list all the men Lewis ducked?

 

The Record

Hackensack, New Jersey
Fri, Jun 28, 2002
Page 16 (S-2)


SPORTS BRIEFS

BOXING

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in his contract with IBF-WBC heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis, manager Shelly Finkel said. Under the contract, Lewis is required to fight Tyson again – but allowed an interim bout, which could be a mandatory defense of his IBF belt against No. 1 contender Chris Byrd.


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Evening Standard

London, Greater London, England •
Fri, Jun 28, 2002
Page 259


Lewis to Fight On (EXCERPT)

By David Smith

Lennox may shelve retirement plans for rematch with Tyson

LENNOX LEWIS is set to shelve plans to retire from the boxing ring — and his next fight could be a rematch with Mike Tyson.
In the wake of an acclaimed eighth-round demolition of Tyson in Memphis earlier this month London-born

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However well-placed sources have told Standard Sport that the 36-year-old world champion has already begun preliminary negotiations to make a mandatory defence of his International Boxing Federation title against No 1 challenger Chris Byrd of the United States.
But if a suitable agreement for a purse worth up to £10 million for Lewis cannot be reached — and southpaw Byrd is not considered to be a major boxing attraction by the television stations who bankroll the big fights — then the champion could give up the IBF title and instead take a lucrative return with Tyson when the belt belonging to the World Boxing Council would be on the line.

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“I want to preserve Mike’s rights” said Shelly Finkel manager of boxing’s most controversial character who was comprehensively beaten by Lewis on 8 June.
That fight drew a pay-per-view television audience of 18 million households making it the second most popular ppv boxing attraction behind the infamous “Bite-Fight” between Tyson and Evander Holyfield in 1997 which attracted 1.99 million buys.
Finkel believes that Tyson who celebrates his own 36th birthday on Sunday remains a huge draw despite the manner of his defeat against Lewis when he was counted out while fiat on the canvas.
He said: “The next fight people will want to see if it was a fluke or of it was for real. I believe Mike’s next fight if it’s on regular TV, will do monstrous ratings."


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Following his one-round KO of Etienne, it was agreed that Tyson would fight Maskaev on the June 21st Staple Center bill as one half of a double-header, with Lewis the other (against Johnson).

It is well-reported that, due to the influence of Don King, Tyson backed out of the date, which led to Lewis suing both Tyson and King for costing him money on an event he was financially invested in.

The fact that they were seeking to rebuild Tyson in this way was a clear indicator that a Lewis/Tyson rematch was still considered a 'potential' event, but it was a possibility Lewis was prepared to explore, nonetheless. But, once Tyson reneged on the Staple Center show, the idea of a rematch pretty much came to an end.

Lewis had to stick with the show, regardless – or else lose his investment entirely.

Vitali was the WBC's #2 behind Tyson, prior to Lewis/Tyson, when he was also being referred to as the "mandatory challenger" for the winner of Lewis/Tyson, and was the WBC #1 contender by the end of June 2002.

Your failure to address or even acknowledge the lack of commercial appeal of Byrd (translating as a lack of public interest in Lewis/Byrd); that Lewis, by this time, was really quite ready to retire, and the fact even King didn't want the fight, is quite a stark omission from your perspective here.

Regardless of what the Ring was claiming, Wlad was still in the process of being talked-up in the US and the WBO belt was not taken all that seriously. Vitali was more of a known quantity to the Networks and had more of a profile in US media. More importantly, he was the WBC #1 challenger.

But Wlad, even after his bout with an ancient Mercer, in June 2002, was still viewed as being a couple of fights away from being in the mix, at genuine world level. After the win, Wlad's then-new trainer was saying this same thing, which Wlad himself acknowledged. So, Wlad's place in this saga is being somewhat exaggerated here, even before he lost to a complete outsider in Sanders.

 

I think Lewis was convinced about retirement immediately after beating Tyson. He talked about it more firmly than he did much else.

The possibility of one more big payday in a Tyson rematch is what tempted him to fight on, and when the idea of that payday became extremely unlikely, so did his interest in fighting again.


Regarding the Lewis/Vitali fight itself, I don't consider inflicting cuts on an opponent in boxing to be fortunate. They are a competitive hazard and need to be defended against in competition. Vitali was taking a lot of punishment and it wasn't just the one cut but multiple cuts that were opened all over his face.

To all intents and purposes, Lewis gave Vitali a beating.

In Lewis's world, that meant a rematch was hardly worth the trouble.

 

I didn't need to speak to Vits, the facts spoke for themselves. And the facts are he lost to Byrd in a fight that was much tougher than he thought it would be, and never rematched even though both he and Byrd were closely ranked for several years.

"If I lost to a guy and got criticized and thought I was winning easy, I would want a rematch," said Byrd of Vitali's predicament. "I asked for one but they wanted me to fight Wladimir instead, which is a harder style for me and he's very strong."

Why do you keep mentioning what Wlad did? Boxing is not a tag team sport.

And if Vit really wanted Valuev then why the never ending rematch clauses? If he lost he gets a rematch.....OK. if he lost that Wlad gets a shot. If wlad lost that he gets another shot. The demands were ridiculous and indicative of a man who really didn't want to fight and showed no confidence.

 

Unification was much more difficult to make in the early 80's and before. The orgs simply wouldn't work together or even rank a champion of another org. Very rarely was Unification permitted. If you weren't alive to see it yourself it really doesnt take much research to figure this out.

 

There was an article when Lewis was training for the Johndon fight where he said he wanted one more fight, either Jones or Vitaly, and was going to retire. He got Vits, won a roughly contested fight and retired. There was no reason for him to go on in my opinion. He had beaten every man hr faced a s a professional.