Vote please on 160.

I was a big Kelly supporter since the BHp fight Kelly and his team are no longer confident and are matching the golden goose carefully. Team Pavlick seems to not want any part of Abraham. I no longer support the latest moves of team Pavlik who now seem intent on Milking the title against B level foes. My vote is with Abraham at the moment.

 

completely an ignorant statement .... Team Pavlik wants no part of AA? Do you read the news? Or listen to interviews?

 

atsch

 

i am pretty sure that abraham would beat pavlik. both are brawlers with some serious technical issues. both throw wide hooks from the outside that are fairly well telegraphed. both hangs their chins out a bit following big throws. pavlik tends to have an increasingly lazy jab after the first few rounds. abraham just doesn't assert any kind of jab nearly often enough. pavlik can throw better shots at range, that is, straight shots, which would be in his favor considering the height and reach advantages. but abraham rumbles brutally effectively in a phone booth--and he is very good at forcing that kind of action. arthur has, i think pretty clearly, the harder chin and his body eats up punishment a little better, though his frame slows him down. i think it all comes down to the fact that nobody who is willing to stand and bang with abraham at 160 beats him. if arthur is going to lose in the near future it is going to be to a technical stylist who knows how to avoid being shaken by the rushes of windmill hooks and uppercuts. there is almost no chance pavlik wouldn't be drawn into a brawl and, in that way, i think his chin disadvantage does him in, sooner or later.

though i do not neccessarily think he is a better fighter in any reductive or basic sense. i think felix sturm would be much more likely to give abraham problems--moving backward in circles away from abraham's rights to the head behind the best jab in the division, coming forward with the straight, standup, textbook 1-2. if sturm gets tagged, that changes the complexion of the fight completely, and felix is always prone to eat uppercuts, but unlike pavlik, his game isn't banging with guys. and if the guy you are banging with is abraham...i think, at this moment in the division, you are getting dropped, if not stopped.

 

I stopped reading here, clearly you don't know what you are talking about...

Pavlik throws about the straightest punches of any champion out there.

 

i've been watching kelly since the late 1999-99 in the pal league tournaments and he has, literally, for a decade, thrown straight punches from range, a good 1-2, always...and, since you stopped reading, i imagine you probably didn't notice that in my post. that is true.

however, in a decade of watching him i have been watching him wing hooks, spread his stance and end up with his toes almost off the ground on his back foot, rotating on his toes in the front, instead of the balls of his feet on both, because that's what happens when you wind a hook too far and wide. he did this, most recently, in both fights against taylor, against lockett...and most certainly against hopkins. in some fights it costs you, in some it doesn't. those fights illustrate every level of that fact.

i cannot imagine how and why you are seeing something other than that, but you are entitled to your opinion. the biophysical mechanics of boxing dictate that the only way he can end up in some of the positions he does is to do just that, wing wound-up hooks from bad angles. when he's inside, he'll sometimes throw a tight kind of half hook, half uppercut, but never from range, ever, in my opinion.

 

I stopped reading that post at the exact same line. Pavlik throws straight punches and works well behind a jab. Those who don't know this don't understand the technical aspects of the sport.

That being said, what about losing to a light heavyweight automatically discounts Pavlik as a middleweight? That logic makes no sense to me at all... and yes, Pavliks is still the best middleweight in the business.

 

What is Relaity ? Anyways, I do believe you are taking sides... and it also seems you have not watched Pavlik ever fight if you think he throws wide looping hooks that are easily telegraphed. Resorting to personal attacks over this only shows that you have some problems.

 

might i suggest that, taxing as it might be, it is a kind of primitive gesture to disagree after having read little and comprehended less of a multi-faceted argument. you have every right to disagree as furiously as you want, but you have to spare the attention to know what you are raging against, in its entirety, before raging. otherwise we simply make the other side of the argument seem more correct. and i know it was not your intention to agree with me.

why register on a boxing forum/message board if you have no interest in engaging in civilized dialogue about a sport you have such a, clearly, serious investment in?

isn't the discussion the point of a discussion board? you know, read what other people have to say, offer convergent or dissenting perspectives in return, that sort of thing.

 

Thank you! I like when a few intelligent posters come into threads like this. It helps balance out the ****** to non-****** ratio.

 

I just read a sentence that was completely untrue, and decided not to read the 300 or so words following it... don't take it personal.