Vote please on 160.

actually, the technical aspects of the sport rather verify those opinions. i suspect you will merely say no and offer some candied insult. and that is fine. but, if you are so inclined, why don't you explain to me how pavlik slides his weight so againt the motion of his hooks that the punch crosses the circle of the rotation of the hips so violently that it crashes his balance completely off the 70%-30% distribution that is, mathematically and historically, well understood to be maintained by concentric circles of rotation feeding motion into one another between the balls of the feet, the knees,the hips and the shoulders, and by extension, the arms, with the intersecting complication of individual elbow tendon strength, muscle strength and flexibility.

if you have an actual answer to that question, i will be more than happy to reconsider my stance. really no need for all the inarticulate rage that courses around the anonymity of the online world. thankfully, virtually all the professional fighters i know are less reactionary than this kind of knitting circle thing that goes on here.

 

i don't.

 

The ****??? That was nothing bunch of complicating wording that goes absolutely no where. Sorry guy, but I'm not impressed. Where in all that rambling does it explain that Kelly swings wide?

Just because a guy has long arms and throws his punches a little slowly doesn't mean he throws wide punches. In fact, I'm very surprised that anyone would claim that a fighter who throws mostly jabs and right crosses throws wide punches. :huh Mayorga, now that's an example of someone who flings wide, while Pavlik never really swings terribly wide with anything.

Not only that, when Kelly pins his opponents up close up against the ropes he does a great job of shortening his punches... not a characteristic that many tall fighters are known for.

I'd really like you to show me a vid of this proposed wide punching and highly complicated mathemateical errors you speka of. 'Cause wide punching is the least of Kelly's problems. Akward balance, slow hand and foot speed, defensive gaps, etc. Those are Kelly Pavlik problems, but punching wide is not one of them.

 

OK. Throw all of the words and analysis out there to puff up your argument all you want. Any image you can conjure up about a technically imperfect Kelly Pavlik is going to be offset in this bout by a much shorter Arthur Abraham, who we have seen lunge off balance with wide looping hay makers. Pavlik has some 80+ amateur fights on top of his 30+ pro fights. It is called "on the job training" and he has proven he can win with it. Unless Arthur can grow at least 3 inches, he is at a huge disadvantage in this fight. Circle that.

 

its close. I'm having a hard time deciding.

I think Pavlik is better. And I also think Hopkins at 170 would take Abraham to school any day of the week and twice on sunday.


Sunday school, Hopkins style.

 

It's a difficult one because neither has a world beating record as yet. Abraham has Miranda and Pavlik has Taylor. Those two names aside both records are pretty standard. Neither are natural middleweights so I would rather this fight take place at 168 so the loser can't use the classic weight drained excuse. I personally slightly favour Abraham.

 

close call,before hopkins loss i would edge pavlik but now i got to give abraham benefit of the doubt.
​

 

we gotta even Poll. Fight could go ether way.

 

The Pavlik fans will say Pavlik. The Abraham fans will say Abrham. Everyone else will say "Don't know", because they haven't fought yet. :bart

 

Good one!!! We've discussed this so much for so long that your post sums things up nicely!

 

When we look at a fighter's resume', we're not speculating. We're looking at precisely what that fighter has, and has not, done IN THE RING. The common theme that if you take Taylor and Hopkins away from Kelly, his resume is no better that Arthur's is ficticious. The 2005 version of Zuniga, the 2006 version of McKart, and the 2007 version of Zertuche would beat most of the guys Arthur has fought over the last few years. Lujaun Simon provides the perfect example. That guy had been living off McKart's left overs.

Pavlik has consistently been in with better fighters than Abraham has been in with. It is also clear from the resume that AA has never been in with anyone who even lives in the same universe with Pavlik. Arthur's best win was Edison Miranda. In a fair world Edsion won the first fight by TKO. All totaled, it took Arthur 16 rounds, the help of a ringside doctor, and a ****ed up ref, to beat Miranda convincingly. We know what Kelly did.

Styles, skills, and physical attributes make fights. Arthur's only advantage is concussive punching power. If Arthur had fast - well educated - feet, a good -fast- jab, good head movement, and clever lateral movement, we'd have a fight on our hands. The resume' says that's what it takes to trouble KP. Arthur has none of those things. AA is a short power puncher who goes to the ropes when under pressure. Pavlik is a pressure fighter who destroys short power punchers, and the ropes is where his victims go to die.

 

IMO Abraham is better and I think would beat Pavlik.
That being said Pavlik is still the MW champ.

 

Come on mate don't start with the 2005 version of Zuniga. You have tried to make out that Zuniga was a great win or a very meritable win for a long time, and I always told you this was a tad disingenuous, as he is very very average.
He did nothing to be rated before Pavlik, did very little after and then got blasted away by Bute and suddenly the 2005 version that Pavlik fought was a good name.

Please.

You are way too biased when it comes to Pavlik, and remember I am not a hater, we have spoken about this a lot in the past in respectful terms, but I did tell you that anyone with angle was a nightmare for him, and that is off set balance due to footwork would see him come undone, and I think the Hopkins fight showed that perfectly.

This fight is close, I think Pavlik might well win it, but lets be honest outside of Taylor and Hopkins is resume is grossly padded, and that is not particularly his fault, but the best name is Miranda and he is fringe world class.

Zuniga...any version is nothing to bother mentioning.

 

Winky Wright is the best middleweight and will prove it by giving paul williams a boxing lesson.

 

I see you're still making **** up instead of responding to what I wrote. Arthur's resume's is a joke, and the guys I mentioned would beat most of the fighters AA has faced over the last few years. That's not a claim that those guys are great fighters. It's simply a testament to how bad Arthur's competition has been. Simon's last fight was Jose Spearman. McKart beat that guy at super ****ing middleweight after two years off.