Vote: The Truth About Chocolatito

2nd option is probably closest; but I didn't have an issue with him inheriting the number one position following Floyd's retirement from championship level boxing. Ward had only just come back, Crawford was kind of treading water, Loma was facing relative non-entities, and Gonzalez's body of work was better than GGG's. He might not have been in a position to hold it for very long, but no one else was available to step in at the time.

 

Oh that part I don't even hesitate to accept. He was definitely p4p #1, albeit briefly. What throws me about the phrasing of the first poll option is the word "era" (because again, most of "his era" technically overlapped with & was overshadowed by the sputtering, drawn-out cluster-fuck of showmanship and bluster that was the end of Mayweather's) and the fact that it dubs him the "GOAT of his weight class" (and that I question mainly because, which division are we talking about exactly? Are we calling him, when all is said and done, a flyweight? A light fly? Both divisions have a lot of stiff competition historically, although he is definitely in the discussion. Then you have straw, where h2h it really is a two-pony race between him and Finito, but his time spent there was relatively short...)

 

Somewhere in the middle between the first and second choices. I thought he was definetly the #1 when he dominated Viloria shortly after Mayweather's retirement on GGG\Lemieux undercard. But GOAT for any weight class? Doubt it.

 

Hard to beleive these poll results so far. #flybynightfans

 

Rungvisai is much better than you are willing to admit. I dont know why you think so, but he is far from ordinary, yesterday's perfromance is anything but an ordinary performance.

 

Happy to discover I've voted with the consensus (#2). Most likely a HOFer and certainly among the best of all time between 105 and 115, to win titles in 4 divisions and amass the resume he has whilst doing it is an ATG achievement. I just think HBO (Kellerman particularly so) over-hyped him and forced the notion of his P4P credentials on us quite heavily, even mentioning a fan made YT highlights video to do so. Choc was certainly top ten, probably top 5, but not #1 IMO. He always had holes in his defense but at 105/108/112 he simply didn't have to respect what was coming back his way and because of that a lot of people (especially here) were able to predict that a lengthy reign at 115 would be a step too far. A handful of smarter fight fans said that eventually he'd come across a guy that would be able to do to him what he was doing to everybody else at 105/108/112.

 

gonzalez was done in the second fight before it even started if you ask me. he looked depressed, he was ignoring his corner between rounds, had this sour look on his face right from the start like he wanted to be literally anywhere else. his punch output was way down right from the outset, like he couldn't pull the trigger at all. it's the kind of look you see on old shot guys who don't want to fight anymore, or maybe guys who've had their jaw broken really early. this was barely even a fight. i believe he changed camps and trainers after the first loss and took it very hard, so maybe it just cracked him mentally. idk, maybe we'll hear something now it's over with.

the first fight was legit though, i definitely recommend checking that one out. it's just a case of gonzalez finding his ceiling with regards to power, coming up against a bigger guy with insane volume and stamina who's able to force him backwards (which has basically never happened to him before and clearly doesn't suit his style). it was really close, scoring it either way was fine, but chocolatito would've won clear against a rungvisai who was the same size as him in my opinion.

for those who don't think chocolatito was ever a special fighter, let's see how your preferred p4p options fare when they're fighting in their 4th weight class. everybody looks human if they move high enough - few fighters have dominated multiple divisions and dared to move into a division where they're clearly outsized, let alone beat and been competitive with some of the top guys in said division. to have done this while fighting in an extremely aggressive, exciting fashion, and to have single-handedly generated mainstream interest in a division nobody in the west ever cared about (despite not being from a major boxing country)... roman gonzalez is a first ballot hall of famer, pure and simple. and if folks have only watched and judged him by how he looked in his HBO fights against bigger men, they aren't in a position to argue.

that said, i totally get why there's a backlash due to HBO's horrendous fawning. it's enough to put you off literally anybody.

 

Well, Mr. Reading Comprehension, I haven't seen yesterday's performance yet, have I?

 

Well, mr "I talk without waching", you said that rungvisai was ordinary, I told you he isnt, and yesterday's perfomance is the proof. Not my fault if you say "X is ordinary" without even watching his recent fights.

 

I said that he HAD looked ordinary (by world class elite standards, relative to an Inoue or Chocolatito) in my previous glimpses of him over several bouts. You do realize he didn't make his pro debut in Gonzalez I, correct? Sorry if the context of my post was a little too nuanced for you.

The whole point was that I was specifically qualifying my opinion as applying to both men's careers PRIOR to facing each other.

 

First, that's what I read

No "looked", no "HAD", no anything, just ordinary. Did I missread?, ok, I rewrite my post:

Imho you have to review your opinion.

 

I'm just glad I don't have to listen to those HBO tools trying to see who can say "Chocolatito" more than the other. I must have heard "Chocolatito" a thousand times the other night between Lampley and Kellerman. Like he is some kind of global superstar that everybody on the planet knows. God, I am so sick of those guys

 

He was not over hyped, he is a great fighter who beat the crap outta the opposition.

 

I mean, how many times have you heard "Triple G" or "Pac Man" or "Money"? When guys are the best in the game, you're going to hear a lot of their names (and nicknames). I'm not sure I get the problem there.

 

Except that my opinion doesn't exist in a vacuum and I'm hardly the only person that was surprised he lost the first time (let alone the rematch) to Wangek. Perceptions heading into their rivalry was that, yes, climbing any higher than super fly might be gilding the lily but that 115lb itself was still within the safe boundary where González ought to still be favored over the field. Show me one person a year ago predicting that anybody currently at super fly (besides Inoue) was the man to beat González. The majority thought he was unbeatable through 115lb, with maybe a large minority saying that Inoue had enough raw talent despite the experience gap to beat him, maybe a small handful that believed El Gallo might just edge him in a rematch, but I'm pretty sure there was nobody this same time last year saying "you know what? He better stay away from that Wangek fellow.."