ward/kova and brook/ggg ...serious question

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016.


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  1. Villain

    Villain Active Member Full Member

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    Bargaining power comes from one thing. Draw. Whomever has proven to put more asses in seats and rakes in the bigger $$ will be the A side. Of course it's still a two way negotiation and everyone has a line they won't cross. But this is how it usually works.
     
    Villain, Jul 28, 2016
    Villain, Jul 28, 2016
    #46
  2. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    I may be a liberal, but when its comes to privates, I'm bi-partisan.:hey

    The last thing I want to think about when naming Melania or Ivanka's nether regions is Meechel Obama.:barf
     
    CST80, Jul 28, 2016
    CST80, Jul 28, 2016
    #47
  3. Caper

    Caper How about a fair shake? banned Full Member

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    Kinda hard to fool anyone we are all part of the "human race" I mean how is the guy even typing without digits unless primates suddenly found out how to type in complete sentences without help from a slightly more advanced ironically more primitive and primal being? I think the more appropriate word is socio ethnic group....
     
    Caper, Jul 28, 2016
    Caper, Jul 28, 2016
    #48
  4. The Shockmaster

    The Shockmaster SOG has 4 children...he pulls out of nothing banned Full Member

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    dan...for the sake of not embarrassing you further...and demolishing the last terrible point u tried to make

    let me rephrase it and see if you agree

    "any other guy in gggs position(so called popular...big ticket seller...top 3 p4p guy...atg mw...atg....true career middleweight) would get killed for not going up one division to fight a guy like andre ward"

    since neither pavlik, cotto, canelo, bjs, or lee fit that criteria...maybe that will help u understand the point better little guy

    agree/disagree?
     
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    #49
  5. Caper

    Caper How about a fair shake? banned Full Member

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    LOL hahahaha

    To be honest I'm not big on either of them but I'd agree I'd rather dig holes in Mrs. Trump but only with a muzzle on her mouth. Meechel is probably a better conversationalist......in any language lol :yep
     
    Caper, Jul 28, 2016
    Caper, Jul 28, 2016
    #50
  6. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

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    A Muzzle For Melania, what a great upscale artsy 70's French S&M porno name.:yep

    Poor Meechel, she's a double bagger for sure.:-( I might need a potato sack to cover those beefy man arms.:D
     
    CST80, Jul 28, 2016
    CST80, Jul 28, 2016
    #51
  7. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Ward and Golovkin are both little league when it comes to being PPV draws. Ward has never been featured on a US PPV and the one time Golovkin headlined a US PPV the numbers were far from special.

    They are both "B-side" at best, in terms of historic PPV powerhouses. The same can be said of Kovalev, as well. These guys are nowhere near the level of guys like Tyson, Holy, DLH, etc.

    But it usually takes 2 to tango, and the winner of any combination of Ward, Kova, GGG facing each other on a PPV could perhaps elevate one of them to a new level - but there's no guarantee of that, at all.
     
    Rumsfeld, Jul 28, 2016
    Rumsfeld, Jul 28, 2016
    #52
  8. alexthegreatmc

    alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

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    I have this question for all of, we'll say 'persistent', posters. Yet they never answer...
     
    alexthegreatmc, Jul 28, 2016
    alexthegreatmc, Jul 28, 2016
    #53
  9. The Shockmaster

    The Shockmaster SOG has 4 children...he pulls out of nothing banned Full Member

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    Alex.....take a look back through this post ....i posed a serious question .....now if people don't wanna read it or don't like me that's fine

    I asked a legit question about who would have the upper hand at the bargaining table under certain circumstances ....I said nothing negative about golovkin ....or even implied anything negative ....sanchez even brought up this potential fight this week

    And then I get the usual group of clowns trying to start something....like dan....so I proceeded to dress him down .....don't get mad at me...I asked a serious, legit, question and was met with garbage
     
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    #54
  10. alexthegreatmc

    alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

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    You did ask a legit question, I just haven't thought up a legit response yet. To be clear, I didn't think this was a troll post.
     
    alexthegreatmc, Jul 28, 2016
    alexthegreatmc, Jul 28, 2016
    #55
  11. The Shockmaster

    The Shockmaster SOG has 4 children...he pulls out of nothing banned Full Member

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    For instance....there's a post below here currently ...I made the other day....230 replies ...2500 views ...and there is a guy in there, who knows I have him on ignore, and he's still replying and bumping

    He claims he's posed questions to me that I ran from .....but I answered his question a month ago and hes still upset and claiming I ran ....it's unreal
     
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    #56
  12. Boxing fan 75

    Boxing fan 75 Active Member Full Member

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    In regard to bargaining power - it is determined by ability to draw fans. I know you might not like this answer - but ggg probably remains the bigger draw if both stay undefeated. Nobody gets lampleys panties in a bunch like ggg - HBO loves the guy and does a great job of marketing him because he is great, likable, likable style, and white. People will pay to see the great white fighter because they want to see him knock out the brother, and the brothers would love to see him get knocked out (it's the reverse mayweather!). Ward is great but lacks those other market forces. Ggg will remain the bigger draw.

    In regard to other middleweights being pressured to move up ... It's case by case ... It took Bernard a very long time and I don't recall the public outrage.
     
    Boxing fan 75, Jul 28, 2016
    Boxing fan 75, Jul 28, 2016
    #57
  13. The Shockmaster

    The Shockmaster SOG has 4 children...he pulls out of nothing banned Full Member

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    I respect your response and opinion....appreciate the post

    I think u may be underestimating thr value of a ward win over kova....yeah lamps and hbo go gaga for golovkin....but I think they may heap some praise on ward too if he wins and it will prob elevate him to top dog p4p

    In regards to other mws....it is case by case...and alot of the other mw champs recently are smaller guys who won belt at cws....or recently crowned titlists....this clown dan went on to even mention Pavlik but wsrd was still in the midst of forging his legacy at 168 while Pavlik was around .....hopkins doesn't come in the same package as Golvokin .....think about w everything golovkin is or people think he is .....he's actually elevated to a higher regard than any recent mw champ of the last however many years
     
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    The Shockmaster, Jul 28, 2016
    #58
  14. Boxing fan 75

    Boxing fan 75 Active Member Full Member

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    To add to my last post ... Ward doesn't seem to market himself well. He is not a heel (doesn't do the stupid minstrel show **** - thankfully), isn't particularly charming, funny, ****y, etc. he seems somewhat normal. Normal doesn't sell. This also sounds odd - but he doesn't have a sugar ray or Ali smile. Looks matter as well.
     
    Boxing fan 75, Jul 28, 2016
    Boxing fan 75, Jul 28, 2016
    #59
  15. PaddyGarcia

    PaddyGarcia Trivial Annoyance Gold Medalist Full Member

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    Interesting question. I don't know why Sanchez says stuff like this. they're ALWAYS going to hold out for the Canelo fight at 160 because as much as I hate Orange Boy he brings $$$$$$$, so that's always going to be the plan.

    But hypothetically, I guess it mostly depends on Ward's performance and how the fight with Kovalev is marketed. I can't say for the scene in US but in the UK has become much more obscure to most people since the Froch win whilst GGG has become really popular here. It's a global fight though so that's largely irrelevant.

    I guess Rigo is a good measure to use here (kind of anyway). We know he's an elite talent and is going to be favorite going into pretty much every fight but even after taking out Donaire (who was P4P rated at the time) he's been unable to get into a position to really call any shots. I think Ward would already be in that position now where it not for his layoff.

    If I'm speaking as a boxing fan and just offering my own opinion, then the guy who has gone up and beat Kovalev decisively should be able to call the shots really. Wherever the ugly face of boxing politics allows that to happen is another matter

    N.B I haven't read the other pages in this thread but I'm going to kid myself and pretend it's all been sensible debate
     
    PaddyGarcia, Jul 28, 2016
    PaddyGarcia, Jul 28, 2016
    #60
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