Was 1916 Jack Johnson a Super Heavyweight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Aug 8, 2017.


  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  3. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Why is boxrec so off on something like that?
    The criteria is up to anyone.

    6'0 might be too short, but he was the same weight as Wilder.
    Is Chagaev a SHW?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    They are off on some ,right on others . eg they have now revised Jeffries height,but continue to list Joe Louis as 6'2", half inch taller then his actual height.They rely on new research as we all do. I haven't defined a SHVy to myself. eg Dereck Chisora is anything from 240lbs to 260lbs yet he is only 6'1.5".Does he qualify? Henry Akinwande?
     
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He is listed as 6'0.25 "and that is how Pollack views him ,that's good enough for me.
     
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I was always very impressed with Johnsons cantaloupe shoulders. Here as an old man they look massive.
     
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  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The term super heavyweight has no set definition.

    I view it as a boxer with the minimum qualifications:

    6'3" or taller
    230 pounds ( In shape ) or greater
    78" reach or greater

    Johnson was just a shade over 6 feet tall, and had a relatively short reach of 74". His best wins came under 200 pounds, so we are essentially talking about a big cruiser weight or a sub 210-pound heavyweight.

    He can look big on film but remember in many of the films he's in there with men 5'7" 1/2 to 5'9 1/2" tall. Examples: Burns, Ketchel, and Flynn.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
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  8. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Do they have to check off all three of your criteria? That means Wilder became a SHW, since he started below 230. Wouldn't Johnson also be one in 1916?
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I view it as a boxer with the minimum qualifications:

    6'3" or taller
    230 pounds ( In shape ) or greater
    78" reach or greater

    Johnson would not qualify. He's too short, with a short reach. I suppose anyone can be above 230 pounds, but note I said: " In shape ". Johnson at 230 pounds is not in shape. 225 maybe :)

    I guess if a boxer is very tall with a long reach you can be close to 230 pounds and still be a super heavyweight. It's just a guideline.

    Wilder is a belt milking fraud who has not defended against anyone in the top ten. He has been exposed in several victories. The sooner someone in the top ten beats him, the better off heavyweight boxing will be.
     
  10. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    If you think Boxrec is wrong about heights, check out IMDB. They are off by a couple inches on most actors.
    They have guys who are obviously NOT 6' at 6'2" sometimes. Especially the older actors, like the silent movies.
    But modern men as well.
     
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  11. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Look at the photo of Johnson in 1916 in my original post.
    He looks like a beast. Lots of muscle and mass, I don't really see much fat.

    He was athletic enough to go 26 rounds with Willard.
    And carries his weight miles better than, say, James Toney.
    I can see his height being a determining factor to not include him as a SHW, but not the weight.
     
  12. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I'd define a SHW as a boxer who has a size advantage over most of his heavyweight opposition. Johnson definitely had that, and sure was a SHW by the standards of the early 1900's. He was even nicknamed "The Galveston Giant". Jeffries was a SHW, too. They were the Lewis & Klitschko of their day.
     
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  13. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    What about the 1916 Johnson by modern standards?