was ali better or worse after his ban from boxing???

Worse, athletically. Better, mentally.

 

That is right Chinx, defintely, but if i had to choose one Ali in 'which was better' pick, it will always be the first version Ali. That Ali is a h2h almost unbeatble heavy imo. Im no Ali fan, but i do believe this

 

Why then T? Why are you no Ali fan?

 

Ha, i never meant it like i dislike him, i just didnt want you to think i was the type of fan (think they get called nuthuggers!) who would just talk up a guy because im biased.

Im a fan of the man's work and plenty respectful to him as one of the greatest fighters ever. Just not someone that i overly like moreso than other elite fighters.

Since we're on the subject of him though- what a fighter in his prime, complete freek of nature and must have been the worst pain in the ass to be in the ring with.

Maybe im a little bit of an Ali fan!!! Haha

 

Yeah T, a freak of nature, never saw a HW able to fight the way he did, as ably as he did. A pain in the ass in the ring, no doubt for the mere mortals, as great as they were by other standards, that had to fight him. And that mouth of his, right? I remember my dad, when Ali first came out; he was offended by that bragging, round-calling stuff just like most of the old timers were...

But then something funny happened. A lot of the oldtimers, at least the redeemable ones started to see that this young, brash, offensive, colored kid could actually fight. Then my old man got it. It's not bragging if you can back it up, kind of thing. Once in the early days, my father went to see and hear Ali at a press conference in Pgh., and Ali was up on the pulpit, playing the clown, aping the jester, pointing his finger into the crowd, as he scolded the predominately white crowd for abiding a still racist, inequitable society...

For some reason Ali decided to pick out my dad(I dont know why...you can see from the avatar that he wasn't an all-American, privileged kind of looking guy. But Ali, having no idea that his scapegoat was also a fighter who'd had to fight his way up from nothing, probably even less of a nothing than Ali had to given the fact that my dad's pop had died at the age of 39 and left a house full of females to sink or swim on their own ... none of this did Ali have foreknowledge of when he decided to use my father as an example of how America favored its white citizenry over its black.

Half the guys in the room knew my old man, members of the press and boxing enthusiasts as well, and in a flood of indignation bordering on the threatening, loudly, angrily and en masse defended my dad's honor, the travails in his life. My dad, nothin' close to a big mouth, but never too shy about defending himself, even verbally if need be, never even had to voice an audible defense of his own, so unanimous and overwhelming was the resentment in the crowd. To Ali's credit he apologized for the miss-call, made a point of taking some time afterwards to shake the old man's hand, and from that day on Ali had another conversion, not because of the personal attention either, but because Ali, when backed up, when proven wrong, the old man had said, took his lesson like a man.

 

Incredible story.

 

Great story! It's John Garfield-quality. Thanks for sharing it!

 

Thanx Bokaj. You've put me in great company, aincha?

 

85 posts (84 at the time) and mentioned alongside John Garfield! You are the ESB wonderkid Chinx!! Haha.

PS- like i keep saying though, keep these stories coming, great.

 

Yeah T, and speaking of great company, am I mistaken or don't I have you located in or about Liverpool? You envy me my Pittsburgh, boxing heritage, and I, well I envy you your Beatles, Lennon, McCartney, Harrison and Starr proximity. You wanna talk about freaks of nature? By the way, I recently caught a McCartney concert, and it was probably the best I've ever been to and I've been to alot; apologies in advance to ESB purists, but a three hour, wall to wall, one classic right after another, all at full tilt energy? I have to say, I'd always considered myself more of a Lennon guy, but after that night, wow! What kind of generosity does it take for a living legend to go to those lengths? Loved it, love the Beatles, love Liverpool for cooking up the perfect storm that produced them!

 

Just seen your post now Chinx. Yea, im from Liverpool, great heritage and history the city has, you paid great respect to our city in that last post and i appreciate that, doesnt happen too much anymore.

I too, must apologise to ESB purists for this next part of my thread, but you have me going now!-

Not sure how much you might be in the know about English football (soccer), but Liverpool football club is the most successful in the countries history. Throughout the late 60s, 70s and 80s, they were maybe the greatest side ever. However, they have not won the league title since 1990, since that time, Liverpool's most HATED rivals- Manchester United have been the dominant force in the sport, while Liverpool have been championship nearly men since that time. We have, however won the European title in recent years (which is considered the premier title in the game), but THEY just won that title the other day. Anyway, football is like a religion in Liverpool, has been ever since the glory days of the 80s and the like, but our fans keep their heads up, and still pride theirselves on being the still most successful team. The current stats are - Liverpool- 18 titles and 5 European titles, Manchester- 17 titles and 3 European Cups. I havent evem been able to think about would be if tey win it this year, but im sure we'll return to the top soon!!

Be a Liverpool fan Chinx, you obviously have a soft spot for our heritage!

Sorry to really drag on with that!

For me though, boxing is always my number 1 sport and religion (haha), so i must tell you again, i envy your city's heritage. Must have been great when your old man was plying his trade, i bet you could just go and see a great fight most weeks in a great fight city like yours. Incredible, that would just be heaven if you had the money to do so.

McCartney and Lennon are both legends, sounds like McCartney was really value for money then, he's in Liverpool soon, young guys from Liverpool my age still go to his concerts. Remarkable realy.

 

Patterson made the same assesment Chuvalo did. Of course, he wasn't in peak condition when he rematched any of these men, but there can be no doubt that he never fully regained his physical gifts after coming back from exile. When he got in peak condition he wasn't too far away, but he had lost a little bit footspeed and some stamina. I think the greatest difference was in the stamina department. When you watch him in the early rounds in Ali-Norton II for example it's clear to see that the speed he still had was still remarkable enough that no HW could catch him when he was up on his toes, but he couldn't keep up that kind of movement for nearly as long as in his prime.

As for him being tougher and smarter after the exile, sure everyone matures. But Ali was always tough and smart. He showed his winning mentality by taking the last and crucial round (as he did so many times later on) against Jones and also showed a lot of guts and composure when blinded against Liston. I think that fight was a mental water shed for him, by the way. That was his trial by fire and he came out of it a grown man (in a boxing sense). Also, Folley commented on how vastly experienced and savvy Ali was in the ring for a guy with less than 30 pro bouts.

 

Cooper made a similar comment, he said Ali was so much more experienced on the inside and in the clinches in their secnd bout compared to their previous one.