Was Ali's level of athleticism for a HW boxer unprecedented at the time?

Yes. But he got hit far more often than his fanboys realise (or want to admit). He wasn't that hard to hit, really.

 

Hi Buddy.
Well, he was similar to JJJ in so much as they were both Heavyweights, but in style, I personally wouldn't say so, from what I have seen from JJJ, he was flat footed, did his strange sort off walk away tactic a lot, and certainly was not very nimble, as some have rightly said, Ali was a revelation, up to his start as a pro, only LH or MWs would have such movement, lest we forget he would carry and dance his 15st frame for 45 mins, that was unheard of for a HW, how anyone can not marvel at that feat is beyond me, they broke the mold after Ali, all the talk about Wilder, Fury, AJ, etc, and their contemporaries, please........
stay safe Mark, chat soon buddy.

 

Lest we forget that this didn't happen Mike, sorry.

 

Hi Buddy.
You don't think the 15 round fights with Terrell and Chuvalo he didn't move and and dance for the duration ? of course he got hit, but overall he kept on the move for most of both fights no ? or have I got my rose tinted on again.
stay safe buddy, always enjoy crossing swords with you.
Mike.

 

Not sure I agree Mike. Especially not the Chuvalo fight, he got hits lots that night. Of course, he sat on the ropes enough, so was bound to get take some leather. Not unexpected, really. He dances a fair bit against Terrell, but Ernie looks about as energetic as that robot boxer in that old episode of the Twilight Zone.

 

Added emphasis to one word, from my original post...

 

Okay… Henry Cooper or Chuvalo lol? The rest who he looked good against were who exactly? 190lbers? Shot fighters? Never were that good types? Give Holmes the same run and he does the same, I’d favour 200lbs Toney to do it fine, same as Louis doubtlessly Louis comes out without a scratch IMO his prime mystique had everything to do with WHO he fought not his magical prime where he was almost stopped by Enry.

 

Well… judging by fighters like Toney and Nicolino guys who actually were CORRECTLY labeled defensive genius’s being on the ropes isn’t a barrier to playing keep away… they were ghosts on the ropes.

 

Lewis goes through that lineup like a steam plow.

 

He wouldn’t get nearly KO’d by Ol Enry “He was fooling around” not sure what fight others were watching… give it a rewatch if the Ali fatigue hasn’t got you? you’ll come away thinking a little different IMO or I could be wrong… tell me what you think! Lennox actually might go 49-0 till he runs into Holmes? That’s if Ali doesn’t exist from the 60s onwards Lennox hasn’t got any problems unless one of the big punchers catches him being a lazy lion.

 

Okay then. Tell me who was actually a better Heavyweight at avoiding punches over a five and a half year period. I may have missed that guy and I want to watch his fights.

 

My tone wasn’t meant to be rude on a re-read either, I’m sorry if it was, I have the utmost respect for both you and the great late @djanders (RIP) it’s tricky to say, I’d say that his height and negative style / bad opponents make that tricky! But… I’d say Louis had a better defence overall prime or not that’s my opinion! He had smarter more skilled opponents so that sort of off sets things… on a round by round basis Louis took less damage without skipping around out of range he had a few seconds of losing when he shouldn’t, being on his back against Braddock but otherwise 90% of the time he stalked them around like a big cat, pawing things away, slipping or rolling… I’d say Holmes also had a better defence too, much less reliant on pulling back reflexively or skipping out of range…compare his bout with Holyfield to the RITJ… if that had been GF in there he’d have gassed like in Zaire! Wlad in some ways, based on purely not being hit, he couldn’t let that happen and sadly for us that meant by any means necessary lol Chris Byrd was fundamentally better, more technical, but a little guy in a harder environment being that he was not fighting Enry, Chuvalo, Ernie and Williams lol I can think of more IMO but… George Foreman in the 80s-90s certainly hid his chin well enough, not overly busy, always bigger just about (like Ali) and with equally so-so opponents so I’’m not sure his was “better” in that he got hit less but he had no legs, I’d say if you had to choose a guy to teach you how to protect yourself you’d go to Ol George.

 

I don’t think there’s been anyone remotely like Ali at heavyweight I don’t think there has since to be honest.
The thing is he was faster certainly on his feet than the smaller heavyweights like Patterson,Cooper and Jones certainly pre exile all the others no matter what size or style looked like plodders in comparison.

 

Hi Buddy.
Appreciate the polite and quick response, with regards to the Chuvalo fight, as I did affirm he did get hit more than usual, but that was, as you yourself pointed out, because he chose to sit on the ropes, had he chose to move and and dance, pretty sure the somewhat ponderous Chuvalo would have landed scant punches, and yes Terrell was very pedestrian, but that surely doesn't take away the almost flawless exhibition of boxing on the move that Ali displayed that night, my view of him is that he revolutionised boxing, he was one of a kind, he alone bought boxing to the masses, people who had no interest in boxing whatsoever did when he came along, naming the rounds when the opponent would fall, who did that before, the poetry, everything about him was unique, how anyone can't see that baffles me, for me he is, and will remain the Greatest, that said you are fully entitled to your thoughts and opinions, of which I have huge respect, I wish I knew your name because you are well mannered and always call me by mine.
stay safe my friend ( if I may ) and chat soon.
PS, I did have dinner with John Conteh, to be continued......

 

He certainly moved for the full 15 vs Chuvalo except for when he stood against the ropes for a bit in the second but didn’t repeat.

Against Terrell he also moved for the full 15.