Was Ali's level of athleticism for a HW boxer unprecedented at the time?

Corrie Sanders had faster feet (100m sprinter), more power, was bigger, and had very fast hands. He was multidisciplinary athlete too.

 

Hey, guys, it's "Paychek" not "Paycheck"

 

I agree, but it's funny how these fights always are brought up even in specific reference to prime Ali.

Cooper 2 is prime Ali and the difference to the first fight is clear to see, and also expressed by Cooper. Not to mention the Banks fight.

 

Like you intimate, a person lives and learns!

 

Yes, he was human and once in while he slipped up. In his youth he was able to hide his lack of infighting skills by dancing around, but these deficiencies showed up later on and probably led to his evenual physical decline.

 

Most of his motion in the first 2 mins of the first round was to get his bearings, warm up, feel the canvas under his feet and start downloading data about his opponent's movement, guard and reaction to Ali's head, feet and hand feints, in addition to starting the battle of psyche on his opponent by showing him how fast and fluidly he could move.

In the first Liston fight, look at how Ali holds ring centre and boxes Liston off the jab and pivot when he comes down off his toes. Him dancing on his toes for the full fight is mostly hyperbole - he danced but he often came off his toes and stuck to more conventional boxing.

 

Of course movie film was in it's infancy when Jeffries ruled the roost, and even if the authorized Jeffries-Sharkey II were to ever resurface, his more vaunted left had been dislocated by wrestler Ernst Roeber in a training accident. (Roeber playfully threw a medicine ball at Jeff, who lifted his left arm to block it, and the ball struck his elbow.) We do have some action footage of Jeff, but what he's doing isn't easily discernable.

However, we do have some vivid training footage of a peak Jeff, his feats of endurance and strength were well documented, and John L. declared Jeff to be the fastest big man he ever saw. He would've done well in events like the Superstars competition. Training partner and rival Corbett was also a superb athlete and conditioning fanatic, but it drove him crazy that Jeff could run longer and faster than himself.

 

Yes, Ali did not win every round in his prime and he was not impossible to hit. But, ****, his speed and agility was something to behold.

 

Sometimes we get so caught up in tradition, ( And it's not a criticism, because I've done it myself)
We miss what's plainly visible.

What you call " wasted motion " was Ali's unique rhythm. It worked for him by throwing off most opponents timing, and distance to target.
Was Ali as technical precise and economical with his offense as Joe Louis?
Of course he wasn't, but I'd pick prime vs prime Ali to beat Louis.
In my opinion, Ali used his better than most atheletiscim that relates directly to the sport he was in,, BOXING to its ultimate conclusion.
That was to win the fight.
He used what worked for him, and his unique abilities.
It's the reason so many of his imitators failed so miserably, they didn't possess Ali's physical ability.
Ali proved in multiple fights he could fight hard for 15rds.
Theirs no better indication of his physicality than that.
Hell, with all the so called superior "training methods " and " bigger" athletes in today's heavyweight boxers , they all seem to need their second wind as early as 6-7 rds, by the 10th -11th rds they're usually barely fighting.

 

Faster feet?
Not a chance.

 

It certainly was, pulling himself out of range the way he did all the time is a waste you made a move not to get hit… but not hit? that’s half the game that’s why I’ll die on the hill Louis had a better defence and footwork - everything was a means to hit the tower guy he didn’t just devote time to solely avoiding a blow.

 

Enry Cooper probably woke him up… he certainly fell back asleep against Oscar Bonavena in his first fight back Bonavena is the size of Artur Beterbiev and most people here think with sense (OB) couldn’t box… so Ali who worked out all through exile and training for the upcoming fight of his life was “too rusty” despite training since he was like 8-9? Or maybe, maybe he wasn’t the “‘master boxer” we think? That Bonavena slug slow and awkward was too “stupid” to fall for his BS and just attacked him instead.

 

He was always mostly stationary against his best opponents all that “up on his toes” flicking worked against his own “Bum of the month types” but against the best he was pretty conventional / stationary with some whacky reflexive stuff thrown in.

 

I don't think that there has been another heavyweight with Ail's level of athleticism either before or since.

If there has been a comparable talent, then they wee too different to make a comparison meaningful.

 

Ali’s performance in the first Liston fight is possibly my favourite.

Excellent point about it being hyperbole that Ali danced for most of the fight - it was really was one of Ali’s more efficient displays - and imo, Ali’s lack of technical proficiencies is also an exaggeration - Ali did a LOT by the book in that fight.

Ali was looking at least as good, probably better, when the rematch began but the fight ended too soon. For mine, it was going to be another ATG performance and a good chance of exceeding Ali’s performance in the first fight.