Was Buster Douglas Really Stronger Than Evander Holyfield?

Too many words for nothing, his strength in the ring was expressed via pushing, shoving, clinching etc: that’s what the “in the ring” guys are talking about- unless you think it’s something else?

George was a strong guy, but for a fact Evander used PEDs and was trained by a Mr O and actively tried to get bigger and stronger, I strongly believe in the weight room he’d make George to school- why is that crazy? Lol Expressed in the ring, the clinch, pushing shoving etc, he GF was a fair bit heavier and pretty strong himself of course he’s going to push a former CW around- it doesn’t mean he’s stronger in terms of raw strength, again a powerlifter would be absolutely man handled by a Sumo- does that mean a sumo is stronger in terms of actual raw static strength? No, it is end of.

There isn’t much else to the argument, believe it or not, you can’t take it further than that it’s speculation so stop acting like a special needs kid because someone thinks Evander Holyfield can lift more then your idol LOL.

Make this easy actually no running! besides in the ring strength which is grappling, shoving etc. what else do you have to suggest Foreman was stronger? I have PEDs and Mr O training for Holyfield.

 

Special needs Kid?

You’re foundering - as usual, the ** Artist formerly known as crash and burn Kamikaze.

You’re not even good at smack talk. My “Idol” - you wish. Scraping the bottom of your intellectual barrel there.

You’ve got PEDs and Mr O on your side but not one verified lift for Mr E.H. So, you have NOTHING. Batting a 1000, aren’t you? Lol.

Okay, what’s Mr Benchpress’s, err, I mean, Mr O’s best verified lift? Crickets I hear again.

You do understand Mr O is judged on aesthetics, right? - and you talk about others being swept away by the sight of big muscles…lol.

Everyone knows what type of strength Forman demonstrated in the ring - even good ol’ ‘Vander, but don’t you dare touch that with a 40 ft pole.

Did Holyfield call in George being heavier/fatter and using same as the “secret” to his strength? No, he didn’t. That’s just your skewed and slanted overlay.

You miss every fact and piece of logic that wouldn’t escape even Blind Eddie - who wasn’t in fact blinded against your nominated villain Sonny Liston - but Eddie said so, therefore it must be so - another exemplification of the thinnest premises you’ll ride on in deference to your blatant bias.

Too many words for nothing?

You know, as it specifically pertains to you, that might be the only correct thing you’ve said - the knowledge and wisdom of a number of quality posters here have been completely lost on you -

Sit Ubu, sit.

 

LOL. Now, what is your evidence besides grappling again? You’ve got zilch, pushing, shoving and grappling-That’s your evidence for thinking he’s stronger than a Mr O trained PED user? Weak as wee wee fan boy.

I’m calling you on it, Yes or no do you have anything else besides grappling which is not a test of static strength nor maximum strength? Again, just yes or no, expand further if yes if no I’m gonna need you to sit yourself.

I never said George wasn’t stronger in the ring by the way, I just don’t think pushing a guy around the ring is any indicator of raw maximum strength. It’s not crazy at all lol. See Mosley vs Quarry for an example. I’m very sure Mosley lifts more than Ol Quarry and guess who gets rag dolled?

 

You haven’t called me out on anything and you haven’t answered any clearly laid out questions.

You just keep ogling what you think are purrdy muscles without even knowing what those “purrdy” muscles can actually do.

As compared to anyone else, I’m afraid the “O” in Mr “O” represents a completely different and somewhat disturbing term/meaning for you.

Again, sit Ubu, sit.

 

I do agree that grappling is not good evidence of overall strength-but Foreman was not good at that, Ali who was not nearly as strong was better at it due to leverage, so his *skill* meant more functional strength in that fairly narrow realm.
Yet how well you can push someone absent technique

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Wow, that’s a really cool emoji - in lieu of an intelligent argument.

Who’s that patting your head btw, your carer?

It appears to be placating you. That’s good.

Sit Ubu, sit.

 

Just a tid bit but somewhat associated to the subject - it seems reliably reported that Chuvalo lifted.

I read a SI Vault article that said, after losing a particular fight in the very early 60s - a DQ loss to Erskine I think - a depressed George took a year or so off and indulged in weights.

However, it wasn’t implied that it was for the first time - rather, it seems that working with weights was something that Chuvalo had done for most of his life.

Interesting for such an old school fighter to not only have dabbled in weights but also for the degree to which Chuvalo apparently indulged himself. Very much against the standard advice of the day.

Imo, Chuvalo def. had the look of someone who lifted - and increasingly so as his career marched on.

Now this comes back to anecdotal, not officially verified, but figures of 400 lb to 450 lb bench press for Chuvalo have been bandied around - even in his 70s, it was claimed Chuvalo was still pressing about 350 lb. Don’t worry, I’m not saying any of these claims must be so.

Again, without verification, we don’t know really know and without same, even though it isn’t the perfect marker by any means, reasonably interpreted strength demonstrated in the ring is the only possible indicator to fall back on.

Floyd Jumbo Cummings lifted in prison (now there’s a surprise, lol) and after. Can’t recall the claims for his lifts or if any were actually verified - but he certainly looked the part. When he faced Bruno, they were a two-man muscle beach in the ring.

Can’t recall their fight exactly - maybe the outcome was a case of which overly muscle bound guy tired out and seized up first. Might have to review their fight in the near future.

Upon checking just now, good to see that Jumbo is still with us, aged 73 yo.

 

Yes, buster was a big dude! Look at the size of his head for Pete's sake! He was peppering Tyson with all kinds of power shots, he ate himself into a coma around 400 pounds. He was very strong, and holy hit him with a beautiful punch. Whenever he jumped up and down, he reminded me of hasim Rahman, a big heavyweight with bouncing muscles lol. The strength of Holyfield is that he set him up for a picture perfect counter right hand, and it was definitely the punch that buster Douglas did not see. And I also too realize he came in overweight/ out of shape, but he did it for something like 24 million I am pretty sure that's what Lampley said on an episode of legendary nights. If I'm wrong maybe it was for less money.

 

Re Jumbo vs Frank, it was exactly that, Cummings ran out of gas.

That fight gave us the first indication of what was, imo, Bruno's biggest weakness, his complete lack of survival instinct when hurt. He was lucky that the big right hand Jumbo landed in the first was right on the bell, watching the extent to which Frank froze is still alarming today. Just after the 8-min mark below:

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Frank really showed a lot of heart here. You are so right. From the end of the 1st round until mid way through the 3rd round, Cummings is battering Frank from pillar to post. It looked like Bruno would be stopped. For Frank to weather the storm like that, and, win by knockout a few rounds later says a lot about him as a fighter. This is why I favor Bruno over his modern counterpart: Anthony Joshua. The punches Bruno took from Cummings were much harder (and more frequent) than the ones that caused Joshua to essentially quit against Ruiz.

 

Thanks Greg. You’re not wrong, very disturbing to see a fighter out on his feet like that - all but completely short circuited.

Huge heart Bert. Many might’ve lost their will and desire after that first round, and also in the several ensuing rounds when still vulnerable and copping even more punishment. Tough fight be Frank clearly came to win.

 

Great find, thank you.

 

George as a Strongman could have been interesting, had he taken up training after retiring from boxing the first time.
Given enough time to bulk up considerably, strengthen his tendons, increase his static strength, learn the techniques for the events and so on, I think he could have done fairly well in the early 80's.

 

If that was even 20 seconds earlier Bruno's done imo.

Even an old shot Frazier took Cummings' shots better.