Was Calzaghe's 'Fear of Failure' detrimental to his career?

Tough one, that fear of failure I'm sure was significant motivation to train hard and dig deep in tough fights as well as possibly slowing his career.

The hand injuries probably slowed his career more though, and also made him adapt his style and be cautious, that and ultra safe promotion.

 

Im just glad he and Ottke ducked each other that would have been a heinous fight.He is not my favorite fighter at all but i do respect what he achived and he did beat some good fighters before he met Lacy,Kessler and Hopkins.He fought Rob Reid,Richie Woodhall,Charles Brewer and Eubank,all have been champs.He was all set to fight Collins for the title as well.He was a good boxer one of our best ever I just found a lot of his fights boring.

 

I have been (and am) a big Calzaghe critic - note I said "critic" and not "hater" - but I do give him credit and respect where it's due, I just feel he was a very good fighter with some good achievements rather than the all time great, second coming, mountain moving, water walking messaiah some make him out to be.

That said, I think a major factor in any reluctance Joe had in pursuing the more dangerous fights was a lack of confidence in his hand. It is obvious to anyone who has seen Calzaghe from the early days of his career (I have watched him since the amateurs), that he has changed his style somewhat to accomodate his fragile hands.

He's always had **** poor punching technique, often cuffing, slapping, clubbing, etc rather than clean punches with the knuckle part of the glove, yet was still banging out opponent after opponent in his early pro career. No doubt this is what has caused his hands to become so brittle.
However, it is because of this I think Joe lacked faith in his "tools of the trade" and may have subconciously been a margin of caution for him when it came to accepting/pursuing big fights.
People are mentioning he had to be cajoled into accepting the Lacy fight by Warren and Enzo, but he had already signed to fight Lacy and he had to be persuaded not to pull out a couple of weeks prior... because of his hand.

Joe didn't acquire the nickname "sicknote" for nothing, because his record for pulling out of fights is big, even against mediocre opposition (which is one of the reasons I refused to travel abroad to watch him, he could be a liability and you don't get refunds on air fare, hotels, etc).

I'm definitely not saying it's the be all and end all of why Joe didn't take certain fights at certain times, there are several other things to consider too such as boxing politics, Warren, etc. But I certainly think it played a very important part in Joe's own mind and his confidence.

 

please, you dont know what your talking about. No need to even respond to this hate mail

 

Correct.

I would take Calzaghe to beat all of them except Jones 97-03.

 

I agree, no doubt he was a good fighter but could have (if he won) been so much better, he was scared of losing thats all!

 

But all in all I think this topic has been over done now, I think we should move on and leave Calzaghe in his happy retirement, playing his Wii.

 

Are you serious?

He was never a blip on RJJ's radar. You cant expect a guy like calzaghe to fight for loose change which he would have to have done.

Taylor? There was some talk of that but he got the Kessler fight instead. A much tougher oponent in my book. And do you really think Taylor could live with Joe's pressure for 12? Not a chance in hell.

Pavlik? Hopkins showed what would have happened if he got in the ring with Joe. It would have been a beatdown of Lacy proportions.

Johnson? Should have happened but thems the breaks. Had it happened he would be just another bum on Joe's record to guys like you. Joe had already beaten Sheika coming off a win over Glen and his record at 168 is less than stellar to say the least.

Tarver? What would be the point? He beat Hopkins who handed Tarver a schooling.

Dawson? Like Froch he came along too late. Quite simply there was never the interest in Dawson to make the fight happen. In any case his struggle with Johnson shows he wasnt ready for Calzaghe.

 

atsch

Yeah fighters fight one handed all the time when they dont have to.

 

I always got the feelin that Joe wanted to protect the '0'. In my opinion he never dared to be great. Yea sure he might of lost a couple along the way but he probably would of picked up a couple of great wins aswel if he had of really went for it.

 

But what was he really "banging out" and in what manner?

TKOs can mean a couple different things on paper but represent a few additional things to those watching them occur (Sheika, Manfredo Jr., Woodall, & Mitchell could represent a couple different perspectives not to mention to the fans watching those fights).

And, these vaunted exhibitions, in his early pro career, of power punching or punching power/prowess (though you first state (and I do concur) Joe had "**** poor punching technique") "no doubt .. caused his hands to become so brittle"?

I wonder how he managed to last fifteen years going from a two-fisted banger to crippled arm puncher? Wonder which of those early pro career wars (if not all of them) did him in?

Was it drilling Paul Hanlon twice in the back of the head in the 1st round?

Was it Paul Mason slipping twice before getting knocked down legitmately by a punch before the ref abruptly called the fight in the 1st round with Mason competely fine?

Was it the long one round battle with the completely shot Frank Minton who came in 6-16 in his last 22 before facing young Joe (and then went 2-10 afterwards)?

Maybe it was the one round contest with that fat bum Robert Curry and his 33 losses?

Perhaps the work leading to the TKO in the 4th of Nick Manners in which Manners was completely unhurt and the ref stopped the fight anyway?

Or, the TKO in the 1st against Guy Stanford (who had lost 11 of 13 before the fight and another 9 of 10 after) in which Joe was allowed to hold and punch repeatedly and then the ref stopped it early - to Stanford's surprise - at being able to call it a night (and collect a check) for so little effort?

Could it have been the six minutes of sparring that ended with the TKO at the end of the 2nd when fat/overweight bum Warren Stowe just decided to quit on his stool?

Maybe the action before the bull**** ref stoppage in the 2nd round for a TKO of fat and horrible (by then) Pat Lawlor?

Can't ignore the test provided by Carlos Christie in that 2nd round TKO (of course, he had already been KO'd by Delaney, Catley, and Starie).

Just a random list, don't mean to slight those other TKOs against Spencer Alton, Martin Rosamond, Darren Littlewood, Karl Barwise, Mark Lee Dawson, Trevor Ambrose, Tyrone Jackson, Stephen Wilson, Anthony Brooks, Tyler Hughes, & Luciano Torres (all of which could invite similar color to emphasize the modesty of the accomplishment).

Not meaning this as a shot at you Gaz S. (as I am in complete agreement with the bolded portion in your first paragraph), just so many keep feeding the line that Joe was some devastating puncher (before his hand problems - as he TKOd/KOd no one of merit or no one of merit legitimately over the rest or remainder of his career) based upon his pre-Eubank fights.

Isn't it really the case that Joe was just more talented, athletic, and skilled then the collection of old men, bums, old bums, fat guys, and old fat guys that make up 95% of those first twenty-two fights of which he got 19 TKOs and the only 2 KOs of his entire career?

Most everyone begins their career against soft touches and some guys rattle off a nice list of KOs/TKOs. In Joe's case, why isn't it obvious (as it sure seems evident to me) that this accomplishment was a complete and absolute product of the so-called competition he faced? This achievement can't be used to substantiate what "he was" before his hand problems in defending his standing vis-a-vis the greatest in boxing's history. This is merely evidence (at the most generous) of being more talented than the local or regional level talent he faced (and the couple foreign phone-it-ins notwithstanding).

 

Brit Sillynanny - Excellent post. I understand and appreciate where you're coming from. Perhaps my phrasing of "banging everyone out" was a little over stated, but I just meant it in the context that he was getting a lot of stoppage victories (one way or the other, inside the distance) that seemed to dry up later on, coincidentally when his hands became more of a liability to him.

Yes I agree that the level of competition in those early days was vastly inferior and, no doubt, that is a major reason the stoppages became less and less as the competition improved over the years. However, I still feel the hand played a signifcant role in it too.
Maybe not even in it's own physical way at times, but more so in Joe's confidence in using it. I think he became far more wary about it psychologically.

I also take on board that he hasn't scored many of what you could call devastating knock-outs, but you don't have to hit particularly hard to cause (or worsen) any damage to your hands if you're punching technique is sloppy. Also, you are more likely to sustain damage hitting the back of the head than you would from hitting the more conventional (and legal) targets, such as you have highlighted Joe's tenedencies to do in some of those earlier fights.

I must stress that I'm not blaming the hand weaknesses of Joe as being the sole reason he didn't take or make opportunities to seize greatness during specific parts of his career. I just feel it was an element in his reluctance. Maybe not even physically as I have mentioned but psychologically, to the point where Joe had concerns and worries about it blowing out on him in certain fights (for example, I'm not saying this was the reason an RJJ fight didn't come about at a better time than it did, but can you imagine having to fight RJJ with the fear of only being one handed?).

But great points Brit, very well made. I just think I've been slightly misunderstood a little. In fact a few of Calzaghe's stoppages weren't even with legal punches.

 

Gaz S .. thanks for the kind response and I can see and understand where you're coming from regarding his hands and you may certainly be quite absolutely correct (as I guess only Joe himself could definitively evaluate/clarify the severity and impact it had upon his career path and choices/decisions - and certainly not I).

Calz has achieved an unparalleled record. He deserves a lot of credit for managing his career so successfully and uniquely. I'm afraid with that comes more scrutiny than usual especially as the "legend" grows and often seems a bit contrary to how it unfolded and the context as remembered in those moments.:good

Be well.