Was Canelo basically a prospect when he fought Floyd?

Obviously CJ Ross was in a different world, seeing it quite differently than the other two judges.

Why are you calling me an idiot? I cited the two judges who had it in the range of acceptability. Ross's card was outside the range of what is a reasonable score so that's why I didn't include it. Duh.

 

Agreed

Trout back then was a hell of a fighter. He had just beat Cotto and went on to have a very close fight with Canelo (The 'live' scoring also shafted him hard, Canelo was getting rounds he didn't deserve and Trout then had to try and adjust)

PBF schooled Canelo, and would have always schooled Canelo. But then who wouldn't PBF school?

Canelo is a hell of a fighter. I disagree that he hasn't improved, I think he's improved quite a lot through GGG1 - Kov. He was great against Jacobs imo, and although some argue that as a controversial decision, I didn't see it. I thought Canelo clearly won.

 

Yes Canelo has definitely improved a lot since this fight, but I think Mayweather will always be a stylistic mismatch for Canelo (provided they fight at 155 or lower). He's certainly imrpoved his footwork and head movement since then, Mayweather still clearly would have (mayweather at 36 and yougner, not now in his 40s) the edge in reflexes and hand speed... maybe Canelo in prime could tag him a bit more but I don't think the results would change. Canelo is definitely p4p #1 level great at the moment, but i don't think he could ever beat Mayweather given the styles

 

Definitely nowhere near the fighter he is no.

But lost 12-0

 

I wouldn't say he was a prospect, he already had a wealth of experience. I would say he's become a better fighter since then.

 

"22 or 23", seriously? Your entire dumb-ass premise is built on his age when they fought and you can't even be arsed to crack open another browser tab and verify either way?

He was 23 years and 2 months old, to be precise. Which, first of all, is by itself no proof of a fighter being excessively verdant.

• By that exact age, 23 years and 2 months old, Chocolatito González had captured the WBA straw title and defended it thrice.

• By that exact age, 23 years and 2 months old, Floyd Mayweather Jr. had captured the WBC super featherweight title and defended it five times.

• By that exact age, 23 years and 2 months old, Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao was a two-division champion (fly & super bantam).

• By that exact age, 23 years and 2 months old, Oscar de La Hoya was a two-division champion (WBO super feather, defended once, and lightweight, defended 6x)

• By that exact age, 23 years and 2 months old, Lennox Claudius Lewis had captured Olympic gold at super heavyweight.

• By that exact age, 23 years and 2 months old, Michael Gerard Tyson had become the WBC (9 defenses), WBA (eight), IBF (six), and Ring Magazine & lineal heavyweight champion (defended twice).

You conveniently omit when focusing on his age (with the word "focusing" used loosely, given your inattention to detail - which at best was intellectual laziness on your part, if not a disingenuous attempt to bolster your weak conceit by making him 'sound' younger than you full well know him to be. Actually, scratch that, even if that was just an 'innocent' mistake, it doesn't warrant qualification - we can just call it straight up laziness. Nothing about you or your poorly thought out argument merits the attachment of the word "intellectual" ) that he was a precociously gifted and freakishly athletically talented youth whose team fast-tracked him through a brief two-year amateur career where he struggled to find any challenges among fellow teenagers, and that he debuted shortly after his fifteenth birthday, giving him a significant leg up on most elites to whom you might compare him at 23. Sure, in Mexico a pro debut at 15 is hardly uncommon, but aside from there and maybe Thailand it does register as quite unusual on average worldwide. You won't find too many world class fighters that had already benefited from 8 years of professional experience within a framework of strong financial backing meticulously curated matchmaking to draw upon already when they were 23.

Your whole stupid point about "most fighters", therefore, is bunkum. Canelo wasn't some greenhorn just a short ways into the game. He more than made up for his abbreviated time in the amateurs with nearly a decade of learning on the job, and plenty of gradation in opposition quality, "brought up the right way", as the old heads would say.

As far as being "drained", eh, it was 2lbs. I'm not a fan of catch-weights and don't respect Mayweather for insisting upon one, but nor should Canelo himself be respected for all his subsequent C-W nonsense. In his previous bout, against Trout, he didn't even scale up all the way to junior middle's limit (he was ½lb shy), and only a few matches before that he was routinely, for the first half of his junior middle campaign, posting official weights of 151½, 150½, and even 149½. Two pounds, while an obnoxious diva move on the part of PBF, is really not significant enough to mention as being a meaningful factor in the outcome. Nor is him being "22 or 23", as illustrated above.

 

Damn...when I'm switched on, I really am nonpareil at this dumbfuck takedown biz.

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On a more solemn note...

2/5 ...Never Forget, the date of @Forza's brutal evisceration (RIP) on this forum.

 

Of course he wasn't a prospect. He was a world class fighter. Just because he wasn't the P4P guy he'd grow in to later doesn't take away from he what he was at the time. We can see in the Trout and Lara fights the level he was on at that time since the Floyd fight was sandwiched between them.

People have this weird thing about the Canelo fight...Floyd either gets zero credit, or people give him retroactively too much credit as Canelo keeps winning as though what Canelo eventually developed in to was what Floyd faced. Both sides are wrong IMO.

It's a really good win. Yes, it was a catchweight, and yes, Canelo was "green" compared to what he'd grow in to, but green Canelo was still a damn good fighter.

 

I think it's more that people give Floyd too much credit because many insist that it was a shutout or a schooling. In reality it was a competitive entertaining back and forth match that Floyd won. The reason why people called Canelo green is because of how drained he looked at the weigh-in. But after he rehydrated he looked better on fight night, but still cutting that extra lb or 2 to make the weigh-in takes a toll on you mentally and physically. It can affect your stamina, your concentration etc even after you rehydrate.

He wasn't green in that he was inexperienced, he was green in terms of how he accepted Floyd's demands of the catchweight, Canelo was not experienced enough to refuse to agree to a catchweight, he was just a young kid who wanted to fight Mayweather more than anything and would do anything Floyd asked to make that happen. So he didn't have the experience of negotiating with Floyd Mayweather, and that's why ODLH ended up in rehab, he warned Canelo not to take the fight because he knew that Floyd would do whatever he could to gain every possible advantage on the night.

So he was not the best version of himself due to the catchweight. That made him green, in that he struggled to make the catchweight but still ended up performing at a high level, just not at a high enough level to beat Floyd Mayweather. Had the fight been at 154 Canelo would have had a better camp, a better preparation since he wouldn't of had to focus on cutting extra weight, which would have made him tougher for Floyd to beat.

 

Floyd flinched way too many times from Canelo feints for it to be considered a schooling. And there were too many close rounds. It was way closer and more competitive than Mayweather's previous fights. Even if you disagree with the draw card, the other two judges gave Canelo 3 and 4 rounds respectably. That's a lot of rounds to win vs Mayweather. Floyd trained harder than ever for Canelo, and he was biting on Canelo feints like an amateur. Mayweather made adjustments and took control starting in round 7 but those first 6 rounds were razor close. And Canelo did have his moments down the stretch like in the round 10 for example with the 12-punch combination including two hard right hands with Floyd on the ropes.

 

That's not what green means. You can't claim being green means he was dehydrated either. Furthermore, I may be wrong on this, but I'm fairly sure Canelo's team offered a catchweight and Mayweather being Mayweather took it.

Your other point is hardly worth addressing. You're literally the only person on this forum who thinks it was a close fight. It wasn't. No matter how many times you try and convince people otherwise, you're wrong. It was a shut out. A complete and utter schooling.

 

The only person on this forum? The OP said he "had the fight 7 -5 or 8 - 4 mayweather".

So I'm not the only one, but yes I'm definitely in the small minority in regards to the scoring of this one. It's because people were just giving Mayweather all the close rounds and continue to act like the rounds weren't close. It's because Floyd Mayweather is not supposed to be taken to the limit by a young kid from Mexico especially one that was weight drained by a catchweight.

Canelo's team didn't offer a catchweight. DLH advised Canelo not to take the fight and he ended up in rehab and was nowhere to be seen during fight week. Mayweather's team took an interview that Canelo had several years earlier when he was asked about fighting Mayweather at a catchweight. And he said he was interested. This was before Mayweather moved up to 154 to fight Cotto, so at the time Mayweather was fighting exlusively at 147 and Canelo was more willing to entertain a catchweight back then and because at the time Canelo had an easier time making 154.

 

Canelo's bodypunching is overrated above 154. yet to see him use it very well against anyone noteworthy. He isn't like Inoue who crumples pretty much every opponent to the body.

 

It wasn't a shutout calm down.

 

Yes it was. A few rounds were closer than others, as in you could maybe bend over backwards and use pretzel logic to nudge them Canelo's way if you were desperate to do so - but there were zero clear rounds for him, and several of such for Mayweather.