Was Carlos Monzon overrated?

Carlos Monzon was IMO, the greatest middleweight champion, and a stellar, elite champion regardless of weight. He did all that could be asked of a champion...in any era. If anything, Monzon is foolishly underrated today. Too many knock him for not being "eye friendly", not flashy and exciting enough, dull even. This is all bull****, frankly. His means were simple and conservative, i.e., the jab, the right, the 1-2, but what is overlooked, is his superior boxing brain. He was supremely cool and in command at all times. Almost like the Clint Eastwood of champions, lol. As @Longhhorn71 so beautifully put it "Monzon in his prime.....just beat people up. He acted like he knew he was the Middleweight Champ" That's it in a nutshell,...Monzon had this almost "reptilian" certainty that he was supposed to win. They call this nowadays "attitude", and someone also said that Monzon possesed, and indeed fought with a "towering arrogance"...exploiting his height and reach, ..."fighting tall" as good as, if not better than anyone in boxing history, again..IMHO. He always did the job, time after time, aided and assisted by his atg chin, resilience, and the innate ability to figure an opponent out and control the tempo of a fight. He caught my eye naturally, by executing Nino Benvenuti with that right hand bomb of his, but after arthritis started taking it's toll, he refined his style and became more of a long distance, attrition fighter, and brilliantly used the 15 round distance in staging his winning strategies. Of course Monzon isn't "overrated"...he was up there in the stratosphere with SRR, and others like him. As Angelo Dundee said after Monzon beat up Mantequilla Napoles, Monzon was "a super champion".

 

Succinct and to the point. Agree 100%.

 

When push comes to shove, I have to rate him above Hagler almost every time the question comes up. Only the occasional favouritism (based on preference or Hagler's more attractive style) will sway me towards Marvin, but in cold judgement Monzon shades ahead of him.
.... and I rate Hagler higher than most people here do in the "pound for pound" sense.

 

I would sooner watch Marvin every day of the week, but I would go with Monzon by dec had they met prime for prime.Monzon bossed fights,he wasn't flashy or particularly fast but he was extraordinarily effective.Both are top 4 imo.

 

It's Monzon #1 and Hagler #2 as middleweight champions.

 

No doubt to me that Monzon was a more confident fighter than Hagler, showing none of the insecurities Hagler did .. he never seemed to feel inferior in any way , was intimidated or doubted his ability to go a hard 15 rounds ..

 

Exactly...if Monzon had fought Duran, it wouldn't have been a tentative performance laced with too much respect as in Hagler's case.

 

Monzon's lack of flash extended even into those moments before the bell for the first round in his bouts. No limbering up by throwing impressive flurries at the air, or bouncing and jiggling about like so many other fighters do...if anything, he looked a bit bored and stationary, sometimes a bit stiff...maybe doing a few deep knee bends just before the bell. It was all business, low keyed and understated, and after a typical slow, feel 'em out 1st round (he never scored a 1 round ko), it was off to work, a sort of inevitable taking care of business.

 

I never loved Carlos, but didn't dislike him because of the respect I had for him. My late friend Mike was a huge fan and he and I watched the 1st Valdez fight in a sports bar; needless to say I had my tail between my legs at the end. That being said, those two were 'apples and oranges' in terms of comparison. Carlos superior but, IMHO, not by much. Those South American wars they were in early in both their careers HAD to take a little off their edge. They had both seen better days when they finally met. But the thread is about King Carlos. One poster mentioned the 2nd Griffith fight as an example of Monzon's being unable to cope with quick slick fighters with Griffith having several losses, both before and after the fight as reason for not rating Carlos higher.
Monzon once said that Griffith was the only fighter that made him do things he didn't want to do. Emile was a wrecking machine welter that grew to MW by the mid-60's and, after the death of Paret, saw his KO % plummet. It's not so much as Monzon having trouble against Griffith because of styles in their rematch as it was watching an aging warrior, still in shape, try to pull out all the stops as his great career winded down.
If anyone wants to trash Carlos because of that fight, they would have to trash Emile as well (both HOF'ers)
Lastly, he may have bested Robinson (the greatest fighter that ever lived) at Middle. When I was a kid in the late 50's I thought Ray was a prime Middle until my dad set me straight by telling me he'd already cemented his legacy years earlier as a Welter, now pushing 40 frigging years old with almost 250 professional fights under his belt fighting at Middle.
All hail King Carlos! A champion in any era. Is ANY Middle going to KO this guy?...NOT

 

I like the passion and drama of you point but Griffith was not a great middleweight ever even at his best .. and he was 35 when he fought Monzon the second time ... and my point was not to knock either one , both of whom I admire .. just to make the point that Monzon's weakness if any was against speed and not power .. he never defeated a top caliber full sized middleweight of the Jones/Toney/Hopkins/Robinson variety .. I am not saying any of these guys beat him for sure but feel they would match up well against him .. no doubt Monzon was a a cold blooded hit man at 160.

 

IMO if you have him No. 1 or No. 2 h2h at MW, then yes he's overrated.

 

My two cents Monzon was a 15 round fighter and an actor very popular in Europe especial in Italy after beating up Benvenuti for the MW belt, he was a playboy going out with beautiful ladies I remember one in Argentina Susana Jimenez great fighter 13 years with out loosing a fight.

 

Yes, Carlos Monzon is overrated.

In the summer of 1992, the Ring Magazine top 10 ratings at middleweight included in no particular order Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan, Julian Jackson, Reggie Johnson, Steve Collins, Sumbu Kalambay and Lamar Parks. At Super Middleweight, having recently gone up, were Michael Nunn, Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn. Even Iran Barkley, who had just smashed Darren Van Horn and would move up to beat Hearns again was there.

Granted, that year middleweight was pretty loaded. But when you look at the middleweights available 20 years after Monzon, you could make an argument a lot of those champs and contenders were better than anyone Monzon faced at the time he fought them. Parks might be the weak link there, but he was pretty good against Reggie Johnson.

Monzon had a lot of fights, but he didn't beat a lot of guys who people would consider really good middleweights.

I don't think Monzon could beat Michael Nunn at middleweight or Roy Jones or Hopkins. McCallum and Toney? Maybe he outhustles Eubank but it's not easy. Benn, McClellan and Jackson ... did Monzon beat punchers like that?

And that's just up to 1992. Not counting Hagler in the 80s or Hearns. Or anyone who has come in the nearly quarter century since 1992. Andre Ward. Gennady Golovkin. Jermain Taylor wasn't an easy out for most (kind of had to blast him out).

Would Monzon beat Hearns, or would it look like Hearns-Hill in some respects?

I don't know if I'd confidently pick Monzon to be among the 10 best middleweights since the 1970s, let alone all time. He certainly would've lost a handful if not more against the guys who came after him.

Would you take the balding, aging Emile Griffith or the aging welterweight Napoles over any of those middleweights listed above? I wouldn't.

So, yes, he's overrated to me.

 

All so-called "Great's" images change over time. When Ali came back out of forced retirement, and was trying to impress / run down Joe Frazier with references to Ali's victories over Liston, Williams, Patterson, etc, Frazier said: "Those fighters were of "your era".....I can only fight the fighters of "my era". The great SRRobinison "avoided" several great black welters in the 40's, and was beaten by Randy Turpin, Tiger Williams, Gene Fullmer, Camen Basilio, etc in SRR's MW era. Bottom line, Monzon could only tangle with the contenders that were available with him to tangle with.

 

Excellent breakdown