Was Carlos Monzon overrated?

Just say

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No. I honestly think a lot of his skill is very subtle so he doesn’t look as flash or impressive as a lot of fighters inferior to him. Not the quickest, sometimes his technique looked a little telegraphed, not a slick defensive fighter but he obviously had great IQ, timing and temperament and his career speaks for itself. His reign probably ranks as one of the greatest in any weight class throughout history.

 

His record speaks for itself

 

I think he is underwhelming to watch but 100% effective.

 

Probably not since my likely favorite fighter of all time is Duran. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say, no, I don't have a bias against Latin American fighters.

Monzon is a top ATG MW, no doubt. Chavez is an ATG fighter at SFW and LW. So they are great fighters, just because I don't have Monzon no. 1 at MW, doesn't mean I have a bias against Latin fighters.

 

perhaps he has nine draws but by the time his title opportunity came, and his later defenses, not many of his defenses were very close. Nothing I would describe as controversial

so I would conclude that by 1970, Carlos had improved somewhat

 

He doesn't look amazing on film to me but he was very effective and has a great legacy.

 

You have to really watch what he does-like another poster pointed out very subtle.
Nothing flashy but he was like a machine.

 

Monzon not overated top 5

 

With regards to the unusually high amount of draws on his pre-championship record, as a few on here will know this is probably attributable to an odd scoring system in place in Argentina throughout the sixties, where a draw was automatically declared if the referee / scoring officials felt that Fighter A had not beaten Fighter B by a clear enough margin. In short, even if all involved felt that one guy had won, but by no more than a couple of rounds or so, it was deemed that he hadn't won convincingly enough to be an outright victor, and an equal share of the spoils was declared a as a matter of principle. I imagine this has already been covered somewhere here, but I ain't trawling back through six pages to check!

In any case, save for the first Briscoe fight, almost all of these draws (and his losses) came when Monzon was an unknown and nowhere near the world-class bracket. I think leeway can be given for the odd early-career blemish here and there, especially when the guy is fighting at least ten times per year, and visibly improves to become a different animal on the championship scene.

Granted, watching Monzon doesn't give you that same joy as watching someone like Sal Sanchez in full flow. But for his championship career, the stage which matters most of all, you'd basically have to give him full marks. Absolutely hammered a very good champion in Benvenuti in his own back yard to win the title. Defended it against every worthwhile opponent. Risked his title in plenty of different countries. Retired as undisputed champion. And though he looks beatable on tape, the fact is that his reign was remarkably low on really competitive or close fights, which makes him pretty unique amongst fighters who had similarly long reigns. Griffith gave him a decent argument second time out, and Valdes had his moments in their return, but neither of them were life and death struggles or ever looked like the result was in serious doubt. Guys just couldn't get past his jab, and even when they did Monzon was just too strong, well-conditioned and heavy-handed for them.

I agree that his mechanical, one-paced style isn't to everyone's taste, and that there are great 160 pounders from other era who would pose massive problems for him hypothetically had they met...But that's largely guesswork and imagination, which plays second fiddle to reality and hard, observable results. And the results demand that he's a lock for a top two Middleweight spot, in my opinion, rivalled only by Greb with Hagler a shade behind.

 

Nope IMO from the bottom to retirement his consistency and greatness should never be in question...

 

Simple answer No
Greatest MW of all time IMO
Not the most exciting to watch but the greatest.

 

Briscoe had Monzon in trouble in that first fight. I'm not sure if he was down but Benny had him reeling.

Monzon is rated about right. Top 5 all time Middleweight Champion. It depends on what you like.

 

Johnson was a very good fighter, a future 3 division champ who was never stopped and only lost clearly to RJJ years later. All of his other loss were close decisions, even at the end of his career he still put up a good fight against a rising antonioAtarver at LHW.

Toney also hadn't peaked yet imo

 

I don't place much emphasis on them. Look at him from the time he exploded on the scene against Nino. 7 years of dominance and sustained excellence.

There's two ways to look the draws. On one hand it's highly likely many of these draws were a product of the Argentinian system. He had 5 draws in 9 fights - obviously Argentina had something going on with bouts that went the distance. Differences needed by 2 rounds, 4 rounds, who knows?

The other thing is Monzon might have really improved and found a groove, particularly when the stakes were raised.

He had 6 draws in his first 3 and a bit years. These were clustered into a 1 1/2 year period. He's absolutely still learning his trade at this point. He rematched a couple of these guys and won. 12 months later he drew with an emerging Benny Briscoe which is no shame. He then drew with a scrub and avenged 2 fights later. He had his last draw a year later (against a scrub) then stopped the guy in a rematch.

Looking at the record of some of these guys, they had an immense amount of draws and that speaks for itself. Guys he beat too.

I think he was a late bloomer. I think he was languishing against sub par competition. I think the title stoked his fires. I think he raised his game big time. Some of these guys, you are right, he should have maybe been stopping (or whupping them) and i'd bet any money he would have went thru them like swiss cheese once he hit his title straps. He did avenge his last two draws in quick succession.

He was obviously a vastly different fighter once he fought for that title.