Was Carpentier-Levisnky fixed?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it was....it had numerous earmarks of fixed fight.

I'd rate it in the "more likely than not" category.

 

Could well have been fixed. I'd say that about most fights.

 

There are various reasons to be sceptical about the result.

A lot of ringsiders thought it was a fake and there was an investigation into the result.

There were doubts about Carpentier's suitability to challenge Dempsey. He needed a credibility boost without actually risking the upcoming Dempsey bonanza.

Levinsky was the type of fighter who was very hard to KO. Skilful, safety first style, good chin and he specialised in staying upright to hold onto his title in no decision bouts. Yet Carpentier sparks him in four rounds? Carp never KO'd anyone else as good as Levinsky.

It wasn't the only fixed fight Carpentier was involved in.

 

In his autobiography Carpentier states he weighed168lbs to Levinsky's 174lbs. He further says,Levinsky adopted defensive tactics from the start,at one point in the 1st rd Carpentier stood ring centre with his hands on his hips just watching Levinsky backpedal ,the Frenchman says the crowd booed Levinsky.
Carpentier dropped Levinsky twice in the 2nd rd.
In the 3rd rd Levinsky just covered up . Carpentier said the American was groggy and his legs were trembling. The Frenchman went out to finish it in the 4th rd, feinting to the body to expose Levinsky's jaw he threw a left and right to the head and Levinsky was down and out.
Bob Edgren wrote" Carpentier really is the great champion we were told he was .It wasn't an inferior Levinsky he met ,and yet he beat him even more decisively than Dempsey succeeded in doing".
Was it kosher? I suppose it boils down to, "you pays your money and takes your choice".
Maybe Klompton has seen the fight????

 

I havent seen the fight but Ive done a lot of research into it and I think it was fixed. I think Rickard paid Levinsky to sell his title in order to legitimize Dempsey-Carpentier. Carpentier's earlier exhibition tour was underwhelming in terms of building him up as an opponent for Dempsey. Most people said that while he appeared to be a wonderful athlete he looked much to fragile for the champion. This bout was set up and Levinsky showed up fat, with a double chin. The rumor that the fight was fixed was going around before the fight even took place. When the fight started Levinsky didnt even look like he was trying to win and capitulated very easily despite his talents as a defensive fighter and durable guy who could last the distance against even the best competition. The only time he had ever been KOd in his entire LONG career was against Dempsey and at that point Levinsky was working in the naval shipyards during WW1 and was unable to train very well for the fight. If Carpentier could get a KO against Levinsky it would give promoters a talking point to compare the two fighters. The problem was that this was an extreme longshot for Carpentier. Carpentier had never knocked out a world class opponent much less one as durable and defensively talented as Levinksy. In fact the only opponent close to Levinsky's style he had ever faced was a fat, blown up welterweight named Willie Lewis who was past his prime. Lewis managed to drop Carpentier multiple times on the way to losing a controversial decision. When the fight was over most werent convinced with the result and several reporters discussed openly in their columns how it was commonly understood among "the boys" that Levinsky would take a dive. An investigation was started into the contest soon afterwards but like most investigations of this sort found proof difficult to find nevermind that the revenue expected to be brought into the state by the people who likely fixed the fight was enough to make an investigation half-hearted at best. Tex got his million dollar gate and the rest is history.

 

Some felt the Carpentier and Siki fight was fixed. This one is filmed, though be wary as some of the versions are edited

[url]http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-fight-that-wouldnt-stay-fixed-126493491/?no-ist[/url]

 

The Carpentier-Siki fight was supposed to be fixed. Siki was supposed to take a dive but he double crossed Carpentier. Carpentier admitted to this in his bio and Siki testified to it under oath. It was said at the trial that Carpentiers manager Descamps ran around the ring and argued with Sikis manager to uphold their agreemenr. You can see this in the film. Siki certainly held back and put on a goofy show early. When he actually started to fight Carpentier wasnt even in it and was so angered and embarrassed that he fought ridiculously foul. I also suspect that Carpentier-Townley was fixed. Townley is going sown in that one from punches that dont land. Several other Carpentier fights had fishy/controversial conclusions as well. He strikes me as being a product more of the professional wrestling style of promotion that often took place in Europe than being genuinely great. His standing has ability and accomplishments have certainly been overstated for the past 100 yrs.

 

It was certainly very convenient that Carpentier managed to ko Levinsky, a feat only achieved before by Dempsey, the man Carpentier was chasing for a title chance.
I don't know that Levinsky was overweight at 175lbs, he was about what he usually weighed , but he may well have been in soft condition if he intended to take a dive..

 

i would go a fair bit better than 50/50 it was a fix. maybe levinsky's poor condition was because he hadn't fought in a while but that's one of the few things i can see to counter it.

the siki fight was later so it doesn't quite count as previous, but once you know about one it brings questions of any questionable results in their fights.

are there any fights we know that rickard fixed?

 

I dont know. Ive never really thought about it. We do know he asked Dempsey to carry Carpentier in order to make the films more marketable. Now thats nowhere near as dirty as a fix but it tells us two things: 1. That Rickard wasnt above having the results of a fight skewed in order to profit from it. And 2. That was he was convinced Dempsey could win the fight whenever he wanted. Thats a bold stance if we are really to take the result of Carpentier/Levinsky seriously considering the fact that at this point Rickards experience with Dempsey was limited and really wasnt much more than his experience with Carpentier.

On a side note: Growing up a fan of Dempsey's and just hearing and reading the same old stuff about the first million dollar gate and the great french champion georges carpentier i was led to believe that this was considered a great matchup. What struck me when i started researching this fight in depth is that this isnt how it was percieved by the vast majority. By far most experts and most casual fans (whose opinions are recorded) considered Dempsey an overwhelming favorite. Even among the minority that thought Carpentier had a chance there seems to be a great degree of animosity towards dempseys war record and hope that he would be defeated which appears to have clouded those peoples judgement. This fight was promoted less on the idea of it being a great and competetive matchup and more about the individuals. Its really a testament to both rickards acumen as a promoter and the exotic and glamorous mystique attached to carpentier that this fight did as well as it did. Most big fights are marketed in large part around the individuals but this fight was really extraordinary given the time and the revenue it pulled. I suspect that where this fight attempted today where we can pull up Carpentiers past performances on youtube it wouldnt generate much interest. The lack of media at the time and the relative lack of any real knowledge outside of what the public was TOLD of Carpentier only helped rickard.

Its no wonder that after carpentier "legitimized" his challenge of dempsey by beating levinsky that rickard forbade him to fight again until he faced dempsey lest he lose and blow the fight, yet dempsey was allowed to face brennan clearly rickard was less worried about dempsey losing than carp...

 

Im not convinced Levinsky weighed 175 for carp. Like you said, he could have been totalky out of shape and soft but he was awfully paunchy compared to some of the other photos we have of him at 175. It wouldnt be out of the question to let him weigh whatever if you are leading him to slaughter.

 

the first bolded is an excellent point.

the second is totally correct.