Was Dempsey our first PED-fueled champ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Aug 2, 2016.


Page 1 of 6
  1. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,659
    46,304
    Feb 11, 2005
    I know that strychnine in low doses was used by marathoners at the turn of the century as a stimulant and to battle fatigue. Was Dempsey our first heavyweight champ to do the same? Are there citings or suggestions of other boxers doing the same? Interesting article....

    http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/66570172
     
    Seamus, Aug 2, 2016
    Seamus, Aug 2, 2016
    #1
    cross_trainer likes this.
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,008
    48,103
    Mar 21, 2007
    15 pages.
     
    McGrain, Aug 2, 2016
    McGrain, Aug 2, 2016
    #2
  3. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    10,974
    5,433
    Feb 10, 2013
    She also said he took cocaine before fights. I dont know if I buy it. Some of what she said is no doubt true but some is just venom. Hard to weed out one from the other.
     
    klompton2, Aug 2, 2016
    klompton2, Aug 2, 2016
    #3
    cross_trainer likes this.
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,659
    46,304
    Feb 11, 2005
    Cocaine seems an easy allegation. Hell, it was legal in the US in smaller quantities until 1922, well into his reign.

    Styrichnine seems a bit more far afield on an allegation and it's use as a PED very specific. How common a practice was this at the time?
     
    Seamus, Aug 2, 2016
    Seamus, Aug 2, 2016
    #4
  5. nikrj

    nikrj Active Member Full Member

    1,451
    487
    Jul 23, 2011
    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
    nikrj, Aug 2, 2016
    nikrj, Aug 2, 2016
    #5
  6. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

    12,328
    131
    Apr 23, 2012
    So a scorned woman slags off her ex. Wow that is a first. The interesting part is what kind of people choose to believe her dirt dishing.
     
    Foxy 01, Aug 2, 2016
    Foxy 01, Aug 2, 2016
    #6
    cross_trainer likes this.
  7. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,659
    46,304
    Feb 11, 2005
    And you are closer to the events than she was? And was there any ban PED's at the time which this mention might cause to incriminate him? Would this mention have had any effect on his championship?

    And again, why the specific mention of strychnine as the agent here? Was that widely known as a PED?
     
    Seamus, Aug 2, 2016
    Seamus, Aug 2, 2016
    #7
  8. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,460
    1,840
    Sep 9, 2011
    no, we know that alcohol was used by earlier boxers to enhance pain management.

    totally agree that given drugs like cocaine that were freely available before the time it is highly unlikely that not a single fighter worked out those things worked.

    on the 'ped fuelled' thing, there is a big difference between these peds and modern peds, cocaine makes you a hyper but normal human, hgh and roids make you into an actual superhuman.

    edit: strychnine doesn't seem to actually be a ped at all.
     
    kingfisher3, Aug 3, 2016
    kingfisher3, Aug 3, 2016
    #8
    cross_trainer likes this.
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,659
    46,304
    Feb 11, 2005
    I am not really addressing the effectiveness different PED's, more the intent of the fighter in taking them and the precedent for what we have today (and what I suspect we have had for a very long time). I'm pretty certain that many of the heroes from the 1970's were more than dabbling in PEDs, also.

    Here is an article on the effects of strychnine on athletic performance.... http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-strychnine-was-an-early-performance-enhancing-drug-512532345
     
    Seamus, Aug 3, 2016
    Seamus, Aug 3, 2016
    #9
    cross_trainer likes this.
  10. The Professor

    The Professor Socialist Ring Leader Staff Member

    26,083
    18,537
    Sep 29, 2008
    Who cares? Athletes have always done things to get an edge over their opposition and they always will. The vast majority of boxers have probably done something that was, technically, not within the rules. So what?
     
    The Professor, Aug 3, 2016
    The Professor, Aug 3, 2016
    #10
  11. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    Like many tonics in those days this was taken under the mistaken belief that it would have a positive effect. This substance is actually a deadly poison. Their is no real data that taking it in small quantiles will enhance athletic performance.
     
    Perry, Aug 3, 2016
    Perry, Aug 3, 2016
    #11
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,659
    46,304
    Feb 11, 2005
    Again, the efficacy of the substance is not as important as the impulse to get an advantage by any means... tho to quote from the above article... "Dosing with strychnine means that a minimum amount of stimulus can keep the body going. That's very useful for long days and endurance races."

    We hear a lot of sniping and suspicion regarding modern fighters and their dietary regimens as though those that came before were pure of impulse, thriving only on warm ale, beef juice and stiff walks in sweaters.
     
    Seamus, Aug 3, 2016
    Seamus, Aug 3, 2016
    #12
    cross_trainer likes this.
  13. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

    60,725
    81,028
    Aug 21, 2012
    Honestly, I doubt it.

    1) Look at the source
    2) Dempsey wasn't exactly a "long fight" fighter
    3) His book greatly emphasises technical qualities of a fighter and not all that much physical preparation
     
    BCS8, Aug 3, 2016
    BCS8, Aug 3, 2016
    #13
    cross_trainer likes this.
  14. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,343
    1,536
    Apr 26, 2015
    Silly and ridiculous comparison. Today it's a serious science that works and is rampantly used even though illegal.

    In the 20's no science existed to back up "snake oil" claims. The use of any substance could just as well hurt performance rather than help.
     
    Perry, Aug 3, 2016
    Perry, Aug 3, 2016
    #14
    cross_trainer likes this.
  15. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,460
    1,840
    Sep 9, 2011

    I agree, we know that people will use any advantage they can, and we know other sports were rife with amphetamines, booze, coke ect. Knowing those two facts there is no other rational conclusion to reach than boxers did it too.

    I was quickly looking this morning and came to the conclusion it wasn't a ped, but that article changed my mind.
     
    kingfisher3, Aug 3, 2016
    kingfisher3, Aug 3, 2016
    #15
Page 1 of 6