Was Dirrell faking it???

Lets be specific. How long should convulsion follow after putting hands to face. Can you give us a range?

Would 1 second be too soon? Would 17 seconds be too long?

Would it be between, say, 3 and 6 seconds?

Lets get specific. Once you get specific, I'll want to know where you acquired your extremely detailed and authoritative information as to precisely how many seconds can transpire between touching ones face and going in to convulsions.

Would it be presumptuous of me to call you a renaissance man? Boxing expert, internet forum poster, expert on convulsions and head injury, and master of psychology and the art of deception and detecting deception. You amaze us all.

 

I agree with that. People have said that it doesn't matter if Dirrell was acting because Abraham should be DQ'd anyway, but guys get hit all the time when they're down. Usually the ref does nothing or just warns them, which I think is too lenient. Sometimes they take a point away, which I think is more appropriate.

Most of the time, this type of foul only ends up in a DQ or no-contest when the downed fighter either cannot or will not continue. Lennox Lewis hits Mike Acey when Acey was down THREE times and only got a warning. Acey was okay. Terry Norris hit Joe Walker when he was down and got DQ'd because Walker was out of it. Norris ran towards Ray Leonard and hit him when he was down, but only got a warning as Leonard wasn't that hurt by it. There's little consistency in how this is punished, except for the fact that guys are rarely DQ'd for it unless the opponent is more ****ed up by the punch.

Whether or not Dirrell is acting is the difference between a DQ win and the fight simply going on and Abraham probably getting a point deduction. Of course it matters if Dirrell was acting.

 

We've already done that, Griffin vs Jones 1. Griffin displayed basically the same actions as Dirrell minus how it looked when they were out, that mostly has to do with Griffin falling face first and Dirrell being on his back.

He didnt have motor control, atleast not voluntarily. Its clear he was still out and in dream land when he rolled over.

His leg was stiff. Why would his leg still be stiff if he had regained consciousness?

How is it not similar? Both showed delayed reactions. Both looked up as if still conscious then immediately lost consciousness.

You just keep moving the goal post as the other person said.

First you said nobody has ever had a delayed reaction then blacked out. The poster you cited said himself "They were knocked out immediately"

That was proven wrong with the Griffin example. Now you are saying he wasnt out because he didnt display Griffins characteristics while knocked out.

I mean I could easily say that Griffin was the one faking and dirrell was the true Ko.

Do you realize how silly that sounds?

 

It is his opinion only. I see nothing in there that can be taken as fact. People don't always go out like a light. Yeah. I don't see him positioning himself for a soft fall, but still, I've seen guys fall that had just enough left to try and break a fall before the light goes out completely. He was probably fighting to not slip into unconsciousness given the circumstances. But he lost that fight. Look at the way he holds his head later. People say it should be his jaw. Nope. His brain got rattled. That is where he hurt and that wasn't going away in five minutes.

 

Thread Stealer, you're living up to your name. You're not following the conversation. Start with the Montel Griffin footage and read the posts and then come back and discuss.

 

I'd rather not. It's only been a couple days yet this argument simply goes in circles. I'm already tired of it. People believe what they believe.

 

Even more ridiculous is that he was materially hit in the jaw. If he was faking it, he would go for the JAW, because that's where he was hit. If he was truly concussed, he would do the non-obvious thing and go for the head, because that's where the severe pain is experienced in such cases.

The response to the above is that AD was such a bad actor that even though he was hit in jaw he reached for the head just because.

 

Actually, we're making progress. It's like whack-a-mole but eventually they relent. We will stamp them out before the day is done.

 

You seem to have a pretty thorough knowledge of the sport. Is their video anywhere of another fighter having the following?
1)Hit
2)Delayed reaction
3)Finding a spot to fall
4)Putting his hands up to his head in the fallen state
5)Losing consciousness
6)Then going into convulsions
7)Coming out within a few moments and rolling over.
8)Showing no signs of a concussion and released from the hospital in an hour

Are there other cases where a guy has a delayed reaction, then goes into convulsions and then comes out immediately, and shows no signs of a concussion?

The convulsions mean he got absolutely smashed, or at least that is my understanding of what they mean. To get completely smashed like that and go into convulsions, is that something that happens after a delayed reactions and is that something that you can come out of so quickly and then roll over and also is that something, a supposedly earth shattering punch like that, is that something you wouldn't even show a trace of at the hospital?

IF you believe he was in "dreamland" as he rolled over, is there a precedent for that? Has anybody gone into the kind of convulsions we saw from AD and then come out of it like that, and that quickly?

I know I was a bit repetitive above but I keep getting responses that don't address the point Chris made clearly in his post.

The doctors responding like AD was in trouble is an absurd defense.
So is that the one saying the one stating he (allegedly) lost consciousness therefore he had a concussion. It relies on the thing we are debating.

The comments Abraham made are something that deserves discussion but no matter your opinion of them they only obfuscate this issue, they do not clarify it.

The idea that people bring forth a bias to the discussion also does nothing to take away from an argument, any argument, unless you can disprove the argument itself.

The idea put forth that people are looking for some sort of conspiracy is also simply more name calling and seeks to discredit the arguer rather than the argument and has no place in an intelligent discussion.

So, all jokes and name calling aside.......is there really any precedent for what Dirrell did and how he acted?

 

Let me see if I can tempt Boo into the conversation. In another thread an army medic of 23 years says it looks legit to him. This is more like snowflakes than a checklist. I have had a muscle start twitching while watching TV. I used to do appliance repair. Sometimes an appliance will do something for a while and then never do it again. We are talking about the brain here. Billions of cells and nerves.

When Jack Loew asked Kelly Pavlik when he knew he 'had' Jermain Taylor he said, when I saw his chest muscle twitch. If you watch the replay in slow motion, as Kelly lands the punch a muscle in Jermain's chest twitches when Kelly hits him in the face. Does every punch to the face make someone's chest muscle twitch? That is the problem here. There is no set of rules we can look to because the brain is too complex.

I cannot say with certainty he was NOT acting any more than someone can say he was. We can look for clues from other experiences but they are going to be imperfect guidelines at best.

In the end I watch the footage and see some things that are consistent with involuntary actions on his part. The doctor tries to shine a light in his eye to check the pupils and he pushes it away because it causes discomfort. In the end I feel he was hit hard enough that he would have been at a greater disadvantage reentering the fight 5 minutes later than he was 5 minutes earlier. That is what it really boils down to. Could he have COMPLETELY overcome the effects of that blow so that AA would not have gained an advantage. I don't think so. His concentration just would not have been there.

 

6) going into convulsions.

Have you thought about this carefully? He did after get punched in the face by AA with a sweeping right that he was not expecting. Probably hurt pretty bad. You'll grant that, right.

So you then think he goes down and starts faking leg trembles? He has his wits about him and he's like "gee, maybe if I do some leg trembles this will wind up OK".

Why do you think this is plausible?

 

He also had to remember to make the leg on the opposite side tremble since the right controls left and vice versa.

 

About as easy as your old lady can fake orgasms !:deal

 

I don't don't know how hard Abraham punch is? huge force on an un-protected chin of a fighter that was kneeled down,jaw exposed etc.No, he was not faking it.You can hear the damn punch from the 3rd row in the arena.A hard punch=KTFO.

 

Same feelings here.

It seems that almost all of ESB regulars have voted here, yet the talking doesn't seem to change anyone's mind.