Was Duran the Best PFP Fighter in both decades ( 70's and 80's)

But Ali lost 3 times on paper, at least once more in reality. It's either Duran or Monzon for the 70's.

 

it doesn't matter who lost,, it matters who fought the best and greatest fights.

 

I'm with Seamus on this. Duran and Monzon were the two best fighters of the 1970s. Ali is definitely in the conversation, but Duran would be my p4p pick. He was just that much more dynamic (and fun to watch) than Monzon. Ali would be third but I'm more sure that Duran and Monzon are no. 1 and no. 2 respectively in the 1970s than I am that Ali is no. 3.

As for the 1980s, Duran gave up any p4p claim in November 1980. As much as I am a fan of Duran, after the no mas fight, he wasn't part of that conversation anymore.

 

So, if wins don't matter, Jerry Quarry is the selection?

 

Ali fought stiffer competition than Monzon did though. And he wasn't known for dragging people up in weight. Not that Monzon is a bum, but his opposition wasn't the caliber of Ali's.

 

Monzon met a very high level of opposition during his middleweight reign - Benvenuti, Griffith, Briscoe, Valdez and Napoles - and dominated in doing so too.

 

Some of them were undersized. It's very difficult to move up from WW to fight a 5'11.5" MW with the upper body of a LHW.

 

The only one who wasn't a genuine middleweight when he fought Monzon was Napoles and no-one before the fight was saying that Monzon would dominate him. Griffith had been competing at middleweight since the mid sixties so while he may have been shorter than Monzon, he was a genuine middleweight when they fought. I don't really think Monzon's height is a reason to say that his victories were somehow less significant. He used his natural physical advantages well in the same way that Ali used his superior speed. You use what you're given.

 

Well of course you are what you weigh. I'm 155 pounds myself. I could in theory bulk up to 230 pounds quite easily. All I would have to do is consume more calories. It really actually is that simple. But I wouldn't be a natural HW would I? Despite what the pounds on the scale say.

That's the same with a WW moving up to MW. It's harder to be a smaller man coming up in weight and fighting a big, strong tall MW with the upper body of a LHW.

 

True, Napoles was rising in weight for just one fight so yeah, he was at a bigger disadvantage. But in Griffith we're talking about a guy who had been fighting at middleweight since the mid 1960s and had already been middleweight champion. He'd settled into the weight and was a strong legit middleweight, not just a blownup WW.

 

Monzon definitely shouldn't be in the P4P conversation. He barely scraped by Valdez. Briscoe came very close to shutting his lights out. The size disparities between both Griffith and Napoles were hysterical.

 

I think you have to add Carlos Zarate and Wilfredo Gomez amongst those names in the list of best fighters of the 1970s. Zarate was an ATG bantamweight champion and when he moved up in weight to super Bantamweight in 1978 to challenge Gomez for his title, his record was an unbelievable 52-0 with 51 KOs since turning pro in 1970. Gomez won that fight and was himself unbeaten throughout the 1970s with around 10 or 11 successful defences of his title. He remained unbeaten until moving up in weight in 1982 and losing to another great Salvador Sanchez at featherweight but undoubtedly both Gomez and Zarate should be included in any discussion of the best fighters of the 1970s.

 

No question about it - both Zarate and Gomez are part of that conversation. But so is Alexis Arguello too.

Gomez's absolute best was probably during the 1970s but his time as champion went well into the 1980s so we're only talking about 1977 onwards as champion and Zarate's reign was three years between 1976 and 1979. Whereas Duran and Monzon ruled their respective divisions for the better part of 7 years each (Duran - '72-'79; Monzon - '70-'77) so their dominance during that decade was substantially longer.

Ali and Arguello both reigned as champions on and off from '74 through to the end of the decade so have a slight edge there too over both Zarate and Gomez in terms of their overall body of work during the 70s.

And there are other great fighters who could be added to the list of the very best of that era - Cervantes, Olivares and Canto to name just a few. It was a great decade for boxing and for Latin American boxing in particular.

 

He absolutely is part of the conversation for the best of the 1970s. He is certainly one of the three best of that decade and has a strong argument for the no. 1 spot, although I lean towards Duran.

Monzon beat Valdez twice and the first time very comfortably. The second was much closer but Monzon was at the end of his career at that point. Both were tremendous victories though and Valdez was a top fighter who'd be considered an all-time great middleweight himself if it wasn't for Monzon.

You can see my post above about Griffith but suffice to say that he was a genuine middleweight and had been for many years when he fought Monzon.

Also, every fighter who was one of the best p4p in the 1970s had off nights, not just Monzon. Duran lost his non-title fight to DeJesus in '72 and struggled with Edwin Viruet in his penultimate title defense in '77. Ali was the beneficiary of some favourable decisions, particularly over Ken Norton in '76. And Alexis Arguello lost to Vilomar Fernandez in '78. So, if Monzon had his tricky moments too, it's not a notable exception.

 

One could say he was P4P best in two different decades temporarily. I wouldn't rank him as the very best for either decade though.