Was Foremans chin better when he fought in the 90s ?

He always had a terrific chin ... the Ali loss was fatigue and possibly a bit of a throwing in the towel .. the Young knockdown was exhaustion ... Lyle was a monster puncher who caught a rusty George and landed time and again .. the older George , who avoided or never fought the best big punchers like Lewis, Bowe, Tua, Tyson, Bruno, Ruddock, Mercer did fight Morrison and Briggs, two big punchers, and did well .. many feel its because h learned to relax and there is validity to this ..

 

To answer your question, yes and no.

The "mummy" defense was good at picking off and parrying single shots from guys that have shorter arms than you. Considering George was one of the biggest guys in the 70's, this meant he would almost always be able to neutralize someone's jab or knock aside blows. However, guys with very fast hands or combination punchers who could get around his big arms showed the weakness in the mummy guard.

In his biography he stated that he had hypertension and anxiety issues because he would always be in a hurry to "get it over with" which you can see in his attitude and aggressiveness that translated into a staggering number of early stoppages. He had also "dried out" and cut weight to get down to the 218-229 range which is an odd habit he picked up from Moore. He would then rehydrate as if he were fighting in a lower weight class. I guess the idea was to give him more speed and alertness but this also sapped him of hydration and could make him gas faster--which lead to the disaster in Zaire.

When you are draining yourself, especially a big guy with a large frame, it can make your brain rattle even more because there isn't enough fluid in your system. The ability to take a punch has a lot to do with the psychological as well as the physical. If you aren't confident and aren't willing to take a blow to land one, you likely won't be able to stay on your feet even if you have a good chin. After the loss to Ali, his confidence had plummeted and he began to have doubts, 2nd guess himself, and experiment with different styles under his new trainer Gill Glancey. His first fight back ended up being really ugly (and really entertaining) against the similarly formidable and ferocious Ron Lyle who showed zero fear and stood right in front of Foreman. Everytime Foreman stuck out his jab in a pawing motion, Lyle threw out a vicious overhand right and whacked him. The damage built up until something had to give. The "mummy" defense was gone and he wasn't throwing his jab solidly with confidence like he had before in the Norton and Chuvalo fights. It was pretty much raw determination and heart that won him that battle.

Fast forward to the 90's and George ballooned up to 250 even 260 some fights. He had learned to relax which is a huge asset in any sport. My coach always told me that once you learn to relax, boxing can be one of the most enjoyable activities you ever engage in. In Foreman's case it not only affected his demeanor with him being less brooding and mean to a more cheerful disposition, but it helped him in the ring as well. Even when he had a guy hurt he stalked them and aimed carefully not in a rush where before he would swing for the fences tensing up before every shot. There are countless examples of guys having their opponent hurt and failing to capitalize because they were in too much of a rush and didn't set up the knockout.

As for punch resistance, at a heavier weight and no longer dehydrating himself, Foreman was harder to push back or made to go off balance/knock over. Knockdowns have a lot more to do with balance/fatigue/and timing than raw power. At 40 years old with tons of wear and tear from his first career it wasn't like his actual jaw suddenly became better, it was that he was more cautious and anticipated shots better because defense was on his mind rather than "attack, attack, attack" like the 70's version. in the Holyfield fight for instance you can actually see him rolling with some of the punches while using his new cross arm block. Very few of them landed flush.

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2:20 Holyfield really only landed one serious punch to the jaw, a winging right hook that Foreman rolled with. He had underrated defense.

Both versions of George would simply absorb a shot if all else failed. He had a concrete chin both eras. His head could snap all the way around and he would never back off or retreat and would resume attacking or pressing forward within seconds. This is a double edged sword because you are taking serious damage, but at the same time you are causing psychological damage/fear in the opponent who is demoralized that you aren't shaken up by their hardest blows. Plus if you step into your opponent's range, they are forced to either back up or their punches get smothered. There is a method to the madness, but only a true brawler can get away with this.

So long story short, Foreman learned to relax, was no longer dehydrating himself, he was MUCH more cautious and patient, didn't just swing for the fences and gas himself out, his heavier weight and weight lifting made him much harder to knock off balance (think sumo wrestler or football lineman), and used a new tight cross arm guard which is very difficult to get through with his big arms.

 

Was George tougher in the 90s? Not necessarily. Whereas four knockdowns can be held against Foreman in his younger days, they are all easily explained. For the most part, George's opposition in the 70s was much more advanced than those in the 90s, with the exception of a few top heavies like Holyfield and Moorer. In the 70s, George appeared weak to be battered around the ring by the decade's two lightest hitters, Ali and Young. However, it was exhaustion that knocked him out, not power. On the other hand, Ron Lyle is the only man to seriously hurt and floor Foreman, with the knockdowns being the sole result of power. Lyle knocked George down cuz he was a powerhouse.
Plus, George's defense in the 90s was very good. In the 70s, George had no defense whatsoever.

As for myself, I don't think George appeared any tougher in the 90s, just higher stamina.

 

I agree with this and also the way he paced himself. He was careful and measured his shots and didn't waste his punches. Top 10 chin for sure.

 

Well Ali did land some shots that shook Foreman up. His face was swollen so those shots did something to him for sure. In the 90's he didn't waste his punches by swinging haphazardly for the fences unless he had his man in trouble.

 

I agree. Ali landed many good shots, but he never had him close to a knockdown, even if he did stun him a couple of times. However, I say that only with George's early durability impediment would Ali be able to knock out, or even floor George, as he did.

 

One of the best posts I've seen on here in months. Bravo, my friend.

 

Glass City Cobra nailed it for me. Can't add anything more.