Was GGG a better talent than Bivol & Beterbiev

m.s. · Mar 16, 2025

shadow111 said: ↑

^^ Fair enough, I agree with most of that, with the caveat that, sure GGG outlanded him in the rematch, but they were mostly light ineffective jabs. They didn't deter Canelo from coming forward and imposing his will. Canelo was also the aggressor, and effective aggression is part of the scoring criteria. Then there's Ring Generalship, which you would argue GGG was, but the judges didn't agree. GGG's body language didn't give off the impression he was the ring general, which is subjective to an extent, but regardless. Ring Generalship in Fight 2 (rightly or wrongly) was large based on the expectation that GGG wanted a toe-to-toe War, and when GGG fought off the backfoot throwing mostly light jabs, that made it hard to see him as the Ring General. As he didn't Man up and fight the fight he said he wanted. Canelo landed more of the significant shots in both fights 1 and 2, that's why he drew / won. You can disagree with it, and I respect that, but that's what happened.

But let me ask you this, since we're comparing GGG to Bivol and Beterbiev, and it seems we sort of both agree that GGG is largely being underrated here. How do you rate Canelo's performances vs GGG in fights 1 and 2 compared to Canelo's performance vs Bivol? Which version or versions of Canelo were better, the versions of Canelo who fought GGG the first 2 times or the version of Canelo who fought Bivol? And why?

And more importantly, what do you think was a fair score for Canelo vs Bivol? Was 7-5 OK, did you have it a little wider, or did you think it was some kind of a shutout as some Canelo haters seem to think? And this is important in the context of GGG vs Bivol, because if you think Bivol dominated Canelo while GGG drew/lost to Canelo, or even won narrowly as you seem to think, then that's a reason to say Bivol was better than GGG.

But I think we both know that GGG fought the better version of Canelo, at least in fights 1 and 2, when GGG was closer to his prime, when Canelo was younger and fighting closer to his natural weight. Whereas Bivol fought a much different Canelo, with an injured hand, with extra weight that slowed him down and caused him to gas. Even the Canelo who fought the 40 year old GGG after Bivol, Canelo dropped back down to 168, so maybe he was a little more comfortable against GGG there than he was vs Bivol, but still had the injured hand, and still I don't think was the same guy who fought GGG the first 2 times.
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For starters, Golovkins jabs were anything but mostly light and ineffective. According to George Groves, Golovkin uses a tap, tap, bang method. He throws light punches then hard one's so your not ready for the hard one's. That's how Groves got his ribs broken sparring Golovkin. Golovkin through light jabs and hard one's vs Canelo. As for which Canelo was better, the Canelo that fought GGG in fights one and two, or the one that fought Bivol? All i can say is Canelo fought his very best fight against GGG in the 2nd fight but in my opinion he came up short, but they both fought toe to toe. They went to war, a high tech war. I think in fight one and two, Canelo and his team fought the fight they thought he needed to fight to win. One on the back foot and one on the front foot.
As for Canelo vs Bivol, i think Canelo grossly underestimated Bivol. At the time Canelo was going to fight for the cruiserweight title, but then decided to fight bivol who looked so so in his previous outing . Canelo thought bivol was going to be another Callum Smith. Bivol glided inside and out, and frusterated Canelo, while Golovkin fought Canelo standing in the pocket in fight 2. Bivol may not be able to stand in front of Canelo in the pocket the whole fight like GGG did. If Canelo fights Bivol again he most certainly will not underestimate him again, but i think he will still lose.

UniversalPart · Mar 16, 2025

Eternal said: ↑

Those guys Bivol and Beterbiev sure don't sound like they will become future hall of famers.

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Both became undisputed and unified all 4 belts in the modern era. That is so hard to do given how much politics run boxing

Both fights were classics

If that doesn't seal it for you, what does?

BCS8 · Mar 16, 2025

m.s. said: ↑

For starters, Golovkins jabs were anything but mostly light and ineffective. According to George Groves, Golovkin uses a tap, tap, bang method. He throws light punches then hard one's so your not ready for the hard one's. That's how Groves got his ribs broken sparring Golovkin. Golovkin through light jabs and hard one's vs Canelo. As for which Canelo was better, the Canelo that fought GGG in fights one and two, or the one that fought Bivol? All i can say is Canelo fought his very best fight against GGG in the 2nd fight but in my opinion he came up short, but they both fought toe to toe. They went to war, a high tech war. I think in fight one and two, Canelo and his team fought the fight they thought he needed to fight to win. One on the back foot and one on the front foot.
As for Canelo vs Bivol, i think Canelo grossly underestimated Bivol. At the time Canelo was going to fight for the cruiserweight title, but then decided to fight bivol who looked so so in his previous outing . Canelo thought bivol was going to be another Callum Smith. Bivol glided inside and out, and frusterated Canelo, while Golovkin fought Canelo standing in the pocket in fight 2. Bivol may not be able to stand in front of Canelo in the pocket the whole fight like GGG did. If Canelo fights Bivol again he most certainly will not underestimate him again, but i think he will still lose.
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Also, Bivol is bigger than Xanelo and GGG

Serge · Mar 17, 2025

Elite Eurasian brothers are the pinnacle of human evolution when it comes to fighting and especially the sport of boxing. We're just built different and have specific advantages which are perfectly tailored to making us the best fighters in the world.

The only elite Eurasian brother to lose a boxing match in their prime is Kostya Tszyu and it took him overlooking his opponent and not being in top shape and them very likely being on PEDs at the time, which for the record they got popped for when they fought outside the US for the first time in a country which actually tested for PEDs and even then it took hundreds of flush PED bombs to defeat Tszyu

Tszyu was obviously shot to bits when he lost for the second time

There's a reason why Floyd rated Tszyu P4P 1 and why all of North America's best fighters in or around his weight class at the time flat-out ducked him or even completely skipped 140 when King Kostya was sitting atop of the 140 throne

GGG never lost in his prime and should be 2-0 against Clenelo in his prime, who is also a PED cheat

Most believe Bivol should still be undefeated

We different not just physically but mentally too

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JunlongXiFan · Mar 17, 2025

chacal said: ↑

GG
He fought bums most of his career in the same weight
His fight vs Jacobs is... meh.... let's say a gift, better than a robbery. And he run like a ***** refusing to have a rematch
His fight vs Derevyanchenko is a blatant robbery
He lost or draw everything else

Bivol
He fought bums most of his career in the same weight
He won to a blown up welterweight in canelo who very clearly does not belong to LHW
He won to a guy whose best victory is robbing him

Beterbiev
He spent all his pro career rabitpunching tomato cans in the same weight
His best win is a robbery vs a guy whose best victory was a blown up welter

I dont see a lot of differences between them all, tbh.

Why dont you guy hug Usyk's nuts instead of those guys'? Usyk's nuts deserve your hugs way more than those guys. Real eastern europe talent, pure raw talent. Nothing to do with those other guys.
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How can you say Bivol fought bums? Besides Canelo and Beterbiev x2 he has Zurdo, Barrera and Pascal. If he beats Benavidez, that'd be a great resume for one division

GlaukosTheHammer · Mar 17, 2025

He's right in the mix I'd say. Primes, they can all trade Ws and Ls with one another any way you mix them.

MagnificentMatt · Mar 17, 2025

It’s really close. GGG seemed a more complete and versatile fighter to me, so if I had to say, I’d say he was a little better.

Dangerwood84 · Mar 17, 2025

Beterbiev, GGG and then Bivol.

tarrant45 · Mar 18, 2025

I don't see GGG as a big talent. What was so talented about him? I see him more as a technically solid meat and potatoes type of fighter. Strong, real fighting spirit , and technically very good. Like Bivol and Beterbiev really. None of them stand out as amazing talents.

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Was GGG a better talent than Bivol & Beterbiev

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