Was Greb really that good?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by L.Everett, Aug 18, 2019.



Is Greb getting overrated

  1. Yes

    14 vote(s)
    34.1%
  2. No

    22 vote(s)
    53.7%
  3. Don't know

    5 vote(s)
    12.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Look up some of Klompton's threads, or his book if you're really interested. He has mass amounts of description on Grebs style and exploits in the ring.
     
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  2. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

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    Boxing is a results-based business, at the end of the day. It's about winning, by hook or crook. The quote has appeared in a few different variants, so I'm paraphrasing, but as Charley Goldman said about his protégé who likewise wasn't the easiest on the eye: "A lot of people say Rocky doesn't look too good in there - but neither does the other guy when the referee is counting over him."

    I agree the lack of film of Greb is frustrating, but he was in the same boat as every other Middle and Light-Heavy of that era - yet none of them ran up such an incredible record against so many acknowledged great fighters. Greb arguably has the best pure record of any fighter in history (arguably fared better giving away more weight against bigger guys than Robinson did, for example), regardless of how ungainly he might have looked as he accumulated it. Unless every referee or set of judges, or every writer who dictated a newspaper decision, or every knockout victim he claimed had an ulterior motive in writing positively about Greb, deeming him the better man against a string of high-calibre opponents or lying down for him respectively, I'm happy to take his record as proof enough of his greatness.

    You can only face and beat who is around in your era, and Greb did just about everything anyone could reasonably expect within his. The fact that no film of him in meaningful action exists or is in circulation is a fault of others, not him, and accordingly it's unfair to deduct him any legacy points in that one. Fair enough if you think it makes him ineligible for consideration in hypothetical head-to-heads against other greats of whom we have film - I'd agree. But his achievements speak for themselves.
     
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  3. louis54

    louis54 Active Member Full Member

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    Get toledos book on greb
     
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  4. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Seconded.
     
  5. L.Everett

    L.Everett Member Full Member

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    Greb's record is incredible, but then again so is Pacquiao's (according to some) and certain folks think Manny has a claim to the GOAT throne. How do you measure one era of opponents against another? How do I know Greb faced tougher opposition than Robinson or Burley? Sometimes I think people look at his insane work rate and are easily swayed by it. We have no footage of Maxie Rosenbloom or Tiger Flowers, not much of Walker, I don't know about Tunney at light heavy and a lot of his record is built on hearsay. I'm not bashing Greb, I just find him hard to believe in at times let alone put him above Robinson. He might have been a standout in his era, but of all time? I'm not sure.
     
  6. Tippy

    Tippy Member Full Member

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    It's strange, it's like sometimes people prefer a good looking car with smooth curves and pretty headlights compared to a car that actually works and will blow the rest out the water when it does go.

    Judging on how pretty the style looks and how technically pleasing it is works only so far but is often peoples main and seemingly only criteria, but its boxing, winners are the best and whoever can do what's needed within the rules is the best no matter how it looks. Awkward guys suck ass to fight, especially when incredible cardio is added in you're playing catchup all match physically and mentally, look at how Grebs opponents were left at the end, lying in a huff talking about how they've never seen so many gloves, they sound confused and utterly beaten, over and over again week after week great after great, Greb is good changing it based on how he looks on someones own personal preference and compared to how guys do it nowadays, doesn't hold much water for me personally.
     
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  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am not sure that anybody else can answer that for you.

    You could think that the fighters of Greb's era, would lose to the best of every era that came later, and still conclude that he was the GOAT based upon his resume.
     
  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti The Ad Wolgast of Googling Stuff Full Member

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    Corbett's record really isn't very impressive anyway, even viewing his era as a strong one.

    I think he actually looks very good considering how little he really achieved.
     
  9. L.Everett

    L.Everett Member Full Member

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    Greb's claim to fame is that he fought the best at middleweight and light heavy and ploughed through tough opposition. Well, Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore did so as well, SRR started out as a lightweight in the amateurs and had two of the most impressive win streaks in history. What makes Greb better than those guys? I'm sure a lot of people would point out that he was the only guy to beat Tunney, that he had wins over Walker, Flowers etc. But how do they compare to the row of killers the middleweights/light heavies of the 40s and 50s had to go through? Even if you think Greb's opposition were weaker than guys like Holman Williams, Teddy Yarosz, Jake LaMotta and Graziano, how can you rank him higher than Sugar Ray or Charley Burley? It seems to me that his reputation is built entirely on his insane work rate and that sole win over Tunney.
     
  10. ray fritz

    ray fritz Active Member Full Member

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    LOL You cant judge fighters by afew minutes film.Youmean Grebs record was conyrived,lol
     
  11. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

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    Read Compton's book. If that doesn't impress you, then it's likely nothing will.
     
  12. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There is enough first hand descriptions of Greb in the ring to fully visualize his skills and style. He was a non stop punching machine never giving an opponent time to counter or set themselves. His record is a whose who of ATG fighters. Loughran, Tunney, Walker, Levinsky, Gibbons (both Mike and Tommy), Rosenbloom, Slattery, Dillon etc. He fought and beat up leading heavyweights as a middleweight. Unheard of! No fighter has the credentials of Greb. A fighters fighter.
     
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  13. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No.

    If you evaluate fighters relative to he era they fought in, then he has got it on the numbers.

    He has more wins over top fighters, even than guys like Benny Leonard, Sugar Ray Robinson and Ezzard Charles!

    Obviously you either take that or leave it.

    On a side note, he almost certainly beat Tunney twice, and might even have edged him in three fights!
     
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Greb has a legendary record.
    He was exceptional.
    But, yes, of course, arguments can be made for Ezzard Charles or Sugar Ray Robinson, or others, being as great, or greater.
     
  15. L.Everett

    L.Everett Member Full Member

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    If you evaluate fighters relative to the era they fought in, then Floyd Mayweather has it on the numbers. But no one would seriously argue Floyd was the GOAT. Boxing is more than just a numbers racket, you have to look at the quality of opposition. Sure, relative to his era, Greb was the best middleweight around, but I have a hard time believing that Tunney, Loughran or Slattery were better opponents than Maxim, LaMotta or the whole horde of avoided black middleweights that Moore, Charles and Burley had to get through. Slattery's only claim to fame is that one upset of Maxie Rosenbloom. If your going to evaluate fighters based on the numbers they put up relative to their own era, then what makes Greb standout above Fitzsimmons, Moore, Burley, Charles or Robinson?
     



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