Was Greb v Langford ever a possibility?

Please feel free to make it.

 

Flowers drew with Kid Norfolk in his next fight. That's world level. Flowers did become more seasoned in the next couple of years as his progress against Panama Joe Gans and Jamaica Kid

 

Well they both fought on the Dempsey Miske heavyweight championship undercard I believe ..

 

I can understand your reasoning here, but I urge caution, because of the politics of the era.

If you fought somebody in their home town back then, you could sometimes get the lost just for letting the other guy finish the fight!

Also draws were often given in close fights, because then all the gamblers kept their money, and referees were afraid to render decisions that might cause disorder.

Getting a draw against Kid Norfolk on the local circuit, didn't necessarily mean that you had made it to world level.

 

Prime for prime

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Someone called Jack Taylor drew with Norfolk in 1922 as well. His record going in was 22-13-11. Was he world level too? Then in his next fight after Norfolk Flowers was stopped by Jamaica Kid. Didn't fight anyone of note after that until he faced Norfolk again in 1923, Norfolk KO'd him in one round in that one. Flowers was not a big deal prior to 1924.

 

Flowers never drew with Norfolk. That fight listed on his record never happened.

 

To understand why this fight was never a topic of discussion you have to understand the circles that fighters fought in back then, particularly black fighters. By the time Greb emerged as a real contender, 1917, Langford's career was winding down rapidly. He fought on for years after that but he fought primarily on the chitlin circuit which primarily featured African American clubfighters facing one another, often in out of the way places or small venues, for little money and little publicity. These guys fought each other so often and knew each other so well that their fights were often criticized as glorified sparring sessions. Langford during this period was kind of like Mickey Rourke's character in the Wrestler. A broken down former star hanging on for one last shot at the big time while performing in less than stellar venues in relatively unimportant contests. Langford had the odd win over a name opponent, often before or after they were considered prime, but when you lived and died on the chitlin circuit it was extremely rare to get a fight against an up and comer or contender. You were kind of relegated to the dustbin hoping to get plucked up as an opponent for someone where might get a chance to shine. Greb was on a different career trajectory at that point. You could easily ask why any number of fighters at the time didnt fight Sam Langford during this period but the answer becomes obvious, because he was a thing of the past and a win over him got you little while he could still potentially bang you out for an embarrassing loss.

And no, Flowers wasnt considered anything more than local regional talent in 1922. He didnt emerge as a real contender until 1924, first by travelling to the east coast and getting exposure there and then after his good performance against Greb late that summer which was highly publicized and embellished by his manager to maximum effect.