His record was apparently 400-12, and I've heard a few people mention on these boards that he is considered by some to be the best p4p amateur ever. Does anybody involved in the amateur scene know if he is generally considered by experts or the public to be one of (or) the best, or were these just classic ESB exaggerations?
He's got the gold medals and he beat everyone, there can't be too much of an argument if someone claims that. Personally I think Vasyl Lomachenko is the best amateur I've ever seen, there is no weakness and his defense is better than Rigos. If Lomachenko wins another gold then carries on in the pro game with the same form we are gonna be seeing the best of all time. I'm calling it early but I believe that. He has a cheeky, cocky side to him and he genuinely loves boxing, he's gonna be a showman and I can't see him losing the motivation to win.
Yeah I've watched a bit of Lomachenko, he's very tidy. I've seen some clips of him fighting when he was a kid which were great. I'm captivated by the style of these cubans, Rigondeaux, Gamboa and Lara. The way they move and judge/control distance and the effortlessness of their punches astounds me. I'm also impressed by their mastery of, what we refer to in Australia, as diagonal and parralel punching. Although I disagree with some of your opinions on active fighters I've always been impressed with your technical knowledge and the insightfullness of your posts Lefty. You're Australian yeah? How's your boxing career going?
Yeah cheers mate, It's stalled abit at the moment, got injured so had some time off and I'm more interested in competing as a sprinter at the moment and focusing on my uni studies. Still going to the boxing gym abit for some sparring and the coach wants me to fight so I'll probably give in sooner or later and have a few bouts. Just not quite feeling it at the moment if you know what I mean. Yeah I admire the cuban style and I love to watch them, as you say they are so effortless and precise with what they do, they set traps and don't waste punches. The only thing I don't like about the cuban boxing style is that if they make any sort of mistake with distance against a good boxer they can get clear points scored on them because of the lead hand low style. That's why I'm so impressed with Lomachenko, he has the athleticism, can fight just aswell on the outside or inside but he has the guard/defence that doesn't give the other guy a chance to score even when he makes a mistake. It's not just a cover up and attack when it's my turn style, he's so dynamic and flexible with his attack working off his defence. It's a high percentage style, probably not quite as flashy as the the cubans you mentioned but the guy just looks unbeatable to me, can't wait to see how his career goes.
I'm pretty sure the greatest amateur ever was probably Teolifo Stevenson or Felix Savon. That's my opinion though. Three time gold medalist olympians, I'm just saying. Hell while we're add it, add Laszlo Papp to the list. Those are the only three to have done it.
Cubans were confident that he would be a 4-time Olympic gold medalist. I can't say if he was the best amateur ever but he's up there. Mario Kindalan and Felix Savon was damn good as well
Lomachenko is impressive to watch hey, amazing defense. People love to bash amatuer rules but theres no doubt theyre taking next gen boxing to a bright future.
Yeah I'm definately a sucker for a certain level of effortless flashiness. I find my motivation for the sport depends on the amount of new techniques or styles I'm exposed to. Have you seen much of this parallel/diagonal punching that's coming down through the AIS in recent times? It adds another dimension to the orthodox techniques. I mean the Cubans and the Eastern Europeans have been doing it for years, whilst our Australian fighters have been consistently getting their heads punched in on an international level. Boxing is such a niche sport in Australia and as a result there is so much nostalgia for the glory days past. The end product of this is a preoccupation with 'old school' training techniques etc and boxing training is ultimately stuck in the dark ages in many respects. Lomachenko's style does seem to be the perfect combination for the amatuer game. If I was an opposing trainer I would have real difficulty divising a game plan to beat him, there just doesn't appear to be any weaknesses. It's unusual to see someone be able to use that kind of upper-body/head movement with the high guard. I'm not sure if it will translate as well into the pro game though. I could imagine either judges mistaking his upper body movement with the high gaurd as him being hit, or I could maybe see him get hurt with a body shot down the middle.
Yeah the head coach at my gym was the 2004 olympic coach for Australia and he's big on that sort of punching, I guess he would of seen guys like Rigondeaux in person so he took what he could from them. I personally feel that with the changes in scoring in international boxing now with less points being scored it favors guys who cover up, that sort of cuban boxing style with the slickness and style is getting phased out in my opinion. Although the kazakhstan fighter that won the gold in the 08 olympics in the welterweight division had a cuban sort of style with those hooks and he looked dominant so I could be wrong.
Yeah right. I thought you must have had a good trainer. Do you think this apparent focus on covering up will flow into the pro ranks as these successful amatuers begin to make a splash in the professional scene? I mean for many reasons the covering up approach has never been that common in pro boxing. One of the most important reasons I would imagine is that given the pro game's paramount concern is to get as much money as possible, the covering up approach is less fan friendly and less spectacular to watch, and therefore may limit your earning capacity. If these up and coming amatuers have to modify their defensive approach to get big fights do you think they'll be able to adjust successfully?
But then again, as you say, guys like Lomachenko use that high guard covering up as a means to attack rather than just as a method for not getting hit, so maybe the pro boxing fans will relate to that a little better.
