on the Jack Johson point i would agree. CVisible culture was entirely white at that time, and its likely Johnson thought he was white deep down once he started to define himself as a young adult. Just guessing mind, based on experiences of growing up ethnic in an entirely non ethnic school in a non ethnic county, you tend to grow up thinking that you were white.
i'd just like to add that i feel bad for bringin up points about the dead, esp legendary fighters i looked up when i was a kid. sometimes theres no need for it, even if its true. if anyone requests, i'll delete my posts.
Well, if a man gets on a bus in Georgia in 1926 and sits in the front does that make him a racist because he didn't sit in the back in protest? If he did there is a damn good chance that the blacks in the back would have had a problem with him for taking one of their seats. If Jack went to a cook-out held after a lynching, well, that is a different story. This stuff gets complicated. For example, I'm doing some research for an upcoming project and am looking at a fight club in Atlanta during the late 20s. It was called the "Elk's Club" and was for blacks only. The promoter was black. For boxing shows that they had at least once a week, they'd have a white section reserved. The cards opened with battle royals. The participants in those weren't white. See? I hear you but I don't agree that the definition of racism changes though how certain eras looked at it sure did. Nah, don't stop writing about the times, just be careful of judging him too harshly based on flimsy evidence. Being called a racist is a helluva thing. As for me, I rank his reign low -because of who he fought and he didn't fight. His avoidance of Wills may be less pressing in my mind than his avoidance of Greb. Okay, but your sample is still not a representative one. It slightly bolsters an opinion. And that's a problem that sees his reign shrink. Loughran and Tunney were worse -and their p4p ranks suffer too for it. Not all COs are jerk-offs. The point was that they were not in a place to make generalizable observations.
Those arguments that everyone who didn't protest against some sort of injustice are accountable or guilty, are mostly bull****, IMO. I mean, there's problem a hell of a load of injustice and nastiness going on right this second, in your city or country, or elsewhere, that you somehow could be seen as "from the same group" that's doing the nasty oppressive deeds.
I thought we already determined he should burn in hell along with the rest of his fellow Klansmen? Thread closed. Who's next on our list? Benny Leonard?
Do they though? In Loughrans case there were not that many obvious black contenders he didn't fight. It could almost have been a coincidence that he never fought one.
it didnt work that way. blacks moved for the whites, even in black areas. Rosa Parks? true. whilst i am aware that it works both ways , segregation was purposefully intended to disclude blacks from the prime facilities of America. fair enough. but if you stated today that you werent fighting black guys, you'd probably lose your belt and all your credibility as a champion instantly, with a hefty fine to boot.... and a chorus of disapproval from the press, the people and the President himself. its actually a very subtle thing. i remember not being awarded CHampionship titles at school repeatedly, until it dawned on me that i wasnt white. They just subtely forget you, becos they are focused on white culture. that is a form of racism too. it damn well nearly cost me my caps at school. yes, thats true.
Yeah really...I thought we more or less settled this along the lines of "who the hell cares?"..This post-mortem judgemental **** occupies the interest of many who don't have any intention of holding modern day offenders to the same standard......as has been amply pointed out already. Another vote for "thread closed"..
I'm painfully familiar with African American history. It just wasn't as simple as textbooks pretend it is. The problem today is different, my friend. Old-fashioned racism is far more insidious now -it goes both ways and at times it is enforced by the same government that enforced Jim Crow way back when. It goes by the misnomer of "affirmative action." Now back to boxing....
RC, no truer words were said on this subject,than your post above.. Enough of this breast beating...The offenders of today in our society are never held to the same standard as the Dempseys of yesterday,who now commit violent crimes on innocent people,who can't defend themselves. Dempsey has been dead these many years, being accused of avoiding fighters,such as Harry Wills,when the darn truth is on record he did sign to fight Wills ,and the promotor coiuldnt come up with the dough , but Wills pocketed the deposit money...But Dempsey STILL is tarnished with the false brush of racism, whilst a Joe Louis and Ray Robinson,avoided black fighters more deserving than their white counterparts...Double standards run amuck...Cheers RC...
No,,,, When your boxing for money, you have to go where the money is,,,,,,, and that is the promoter.
True,Dempsey, and Louis and Robinson, were under the "guidance" of the promoter,who puts it all together. Be it a Tex Rickard, a Mike Jacobs. And of course their managers who DETERMINE who their fighter boxes..Dempsey in his peak feared no one. and had many black sparring partners such as Bill Tate, George Godfrey,indian Chief Turner etc. If he was a true Bigot would he employ them ? The answer is self evident. Now for a new thread !
