Was Jack Johnson Overated? (fighting ability and stylewise)

He was.

But judging from this thread, the forum is finally getting Johnson right. Good technician, but under totally different rules than today. He'd probably get beaten up against modern contenders under modern rules. Or get DQ'd.

It's really amazing what a difference easy access to video makes. I remember once upon a time before YouTube, when it was a huge development to be able to swap tiny downloadable clips of Jeffries sparring his brother, or Sullivan playing around with Corbett. Johnson's reputation from Fleischer lasted longer than the others', but I think it's come back down to earth by now.

 

i don’t know at least he beat all those men rather than not fight them at all the way other champions around his era did

 

Do I think his style would need to be modified for the current game ? Of course. It was a different sport in many ways then. Do I think he had the talents and skill sets required to adjust and be great today in his proper weight class ? Absolutely.

If you study his career you know Johnson was in his physical prime and fought the overwhelming majority of his best opposition before the age of thirty when he finally got a title bout and was first captured on film. Put aside Buirns and Ketchel. Johnson fought all the best men of his age that would fight him on his way up, many over 6' and 200 pounds and ultimately dominated all . This misconception of him fighting tiny guys is simply because that is what we have on film. Look at how magnificent he looked at age 37, overweight, poorly trained against a prime Willard .. without question much of his greatest offensive bursts captured on film and surprise, he knew how to put multilpunch, fluid combinations together beautifully.

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Johnson was the best defensive fighter of his day. It was based on his ring IQ, instincts and speed. Why couldn't he modify his game ? Johnson was lightning fast, a solid puncher, exceptionally strong with no PED's. His instincts and reflexes were top notch. His stamina was exceptional. Again, why couldn't he modify his game ? At a bit over 6' and a 75" reach and a prime weight of about 200 the man would be a cruiserweight now and may or may not have been able to compete with the best of the bigger men today but I certainly feel his talent would make him capable of being championship caliber at cruiser. The style would not work but was the talent there , without question.

 

I can’t imagine a world where there was no film of Johnson and Nats opinion mattered to anyone. His opinion holds less weight then the click pen on my desk. A meme of a man.

 

He carried a lot more weight 15-20 years ago.

The Dark Times. Pray that they never return, padawan.

 

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Part of the confusion is that they had a different style of fighting back then that is hard for us to judge. I remember a story about a reporter trying to tell Johnson in his old age how boxing had changed, and Johnson invited him to try to hit him. He didn't land a punch and Johnson embarrassed him.

I can't remember where I read that...one of my old KO magazines, I reckon.

 

Definitely not overrated, and I truly believe that if we were able to see him with all of the quality and clarity of today, we'd be far more impressed! It is just so difficult to gauge any kind of real subtlety in these old films. In fact, it often makes the old timers look like they have little smoothness & rhythm. Can you imagine seeing prime Benny Leonard, moving exactly as he should?

 

I remember that article, I think Johnson was close to 80!! The guy started out a bit hesitant because of JJ's advanced years, but ended up frustrated!

Yeah it was KO or maybe Boxing Illustrated?

 

Probably Boxing Illustrated. Glad someone else remembers!

I wish there was some way to find it because I think that article...from the gift horse's mouth...really does a lot to explain the OP's confusion. It is just very hard to judge what JJ was doing in there from a modern perspective.

 

No he died at age 68.

 

Oh **** I was way off on that one, ty for the correction.

 

Nice post HE man

Johnson had all the natural attributes and ring IQ/Adaptability to compete extremely against the reasonably like sized opponents of today - and of course he would modify his style. What we have on film for the most part is Johnson only doing what was necessary - it wasn't the ceiling to the man. He also toyed with his opponents, for the cameras and to twist the knife. Jeffries could've been put out much earlier - Johnson had him badly hurt and staggering as early as round 4. The Willard fight is a great example of Johnson pushing harder - all be he older and out of shape - punching Willard from one side of the ring to another, nice fast executions in combination. Until Johnson tired, he had Jess easily beaten.

 

Totally with you on this ... the style was for the time and he had the skills to be the best defensive fighter of his era .. I see him today in a Whitaker/Mayweather/Hopkins/Ward/Byrd mold of sorts, the sort of fighter who saw the punches coming and knew how to use his speed, power, strength, high ring IQ and just enough movement to maximize effectiveness ..

 

Eddie Futch named Johnson,Louis and Ali as the three best heavies.
Fleischer may have had some old time ideas, but he did a lot for boxing imo,including campaigning for black fighters such as Harry Wills.