Was Jack Johnson truly as great as he is portrayed?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by 6'4south, Jul 12, 2012.


Page 1 of 3
  1. 6'4south

    6'4south Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,943
    81
    Apr 2, 2012
    Yes I'm questioning yet another legend, but, I've seen his biography and 5 or 6 of his matches. Unfortunately, because of the era he boxed in there is very limited footage of his fights, but from what I've seen and read about him, he seemed to be known more for his (what many condenser to be) rebellious lifestyle, just az much as he was for his boxing pedigree.

    Don't get me wrong for a black man to become Heavyweight Champion of the world during a time when Jim Crow was in effect, pretty much writes it's own ticker to greatness, but what I'm talking about is the boxer.

    Every one of Jack Johnsons fight that I've had the chance to watch, he seemed to be more interested in clinching and holding and deliberately toying with his opponents, and pissing off the largely white crowd. So my question is what was he really working with?

    I guess Ali may have said it best when he said "I'm the greatest, but that ni99a is the baddest"! He was making reference to the fact that Jack Johnson lived a lifestyle that would certainly have got a black man lynched, especially without no NAACP or any other minority activist groups to protect him.
     
    6'4south, Jul 12, 2012
    6'4south, Jul 12, 2012
    #1
  2. ashl3y72

    ashl3y72 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    3,135
    54
    Jul 4, 2012
    Definitely, and he dominated for pretty much a decade and a little more.
     
    ashl3y72, Jul 12, 2012
    ashl3y72, Jul 12, 2012
    #2
  3. Cellz831

    Cellz831 Obsessed with Boxing banned

    20,344
    3
    Oct 21, 2011
    he toyed with his opponents.
     
    Cellz831, Jul 12, 2012
    Cellz831, Jul 12, 2012
    #3
  4. Boxing Fanatic

    Boxing Fanatic Loyal Member banned

    48,204
    9
    Sep 16, 2008
    i just dont have any respect for people who rat on old school fighters. they r nothing like the pussies that fight today with padded gloves, fighting once every 6 months, demanding ridiculous purses and against weak competition.

    where r the muhammad alis, sugar rays who werent afraid to fight anybody anywhere any time? i tell ya with the invention of peds and tecnology we have become pussified as a sport. it aint real any more. its just a bunch of pussies saying they r the best and refusing to fight the best like the biggest stars of the sport. and for what, all for the dollar bill. they hide their cowardness behind that dollar bill and rip us the fans off with their ppvs
     
    Boxing Fanatic, Jul 12, 2012
    Boxing Fanatic, Jul 12, 2012
    #4
  5. megavolt

    megavolt Constantly Shadowboxing Full Member

    13,622
    34
    Dec 25, 2009
    He was a pretty big HW (for his time) actually and used his weight to his advantage a lot. He gets many accolades for his brash lifestyle but he had a very developed inside game.
     
    megavolt, Jul 12, 2012
    megavolt, Jul 12, 2012
    #5
  6. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

    14,701
    16
    Feb 23, 2012
    This isn't the right thread to go off about fighters not taking on the best.

    Ducking has been in existence since John L. Sullivan stated he wouldn't face black fighters. Jack Johnson had the same motto as Champion, ironically enough. Good thing he got outrageously green versions of Jeanette and McVey, a middleweight Langford on his resume beforehand.
     
    Hands of Iron, Jul 12, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Jul 12, 2012
    #6
  7. Cael

    Cael Claudia Cardinale Full Member

    3,379
    8
    Sep 17, 2010

    He dominated ****...
    Look at his title defenses
    He ducked his best 4 challengers in Jeanette, McVea, Gunboat Smith and of course Langford, to fight who?

    To fight this kind of comp.

    Look how ****ing **** Flynn is; it's laughable. :lol::lol:


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFWA5xjJ0-4[/ame]

    JJ's got probably the shittiest HW title reign of all time.
     
    Cael, Jul 12, 2012
    Cael, Jul 12, 2012
    #7
  8. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

    14,701
    16
    Feb 23, 2012
    Langford would've KTFO Johnson. He didnt want Sammy all grown up.
     
    Hands of Iron, Jul 12, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Jul 12, 2012
    #8
  9. Cael

    Cael Claudia Cardinale Full Member

    3,379
    8
    Sep 17, 2010

    ...Compared to the mighty JJ who managed an astonishing 8 successful title defenses in a 7 year long reign fighting HW journeymen some of them with losing records and 40 lbs smaller middleweights.
     
    Cael, Jul 13, 2012
    Cael, Jul 13, 2012
    #9
  10. Brother X

    Brother X New Member Full Member

    78
    0
    Jul 7, 2012
    Please don't let this be another "I am going **** on a legend to prop up the Klitschko shitty 'legacy'" thread
     
    Brother X, Jul 13, 2012
    Brother X, Jul 13, 2012
    #10
  11. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    56,138
    10,556
    Jul 28, 2009
    Great fighter? Yes, I believe so.
    Great among the hundreds of greats the sport has seen? I don't believe so. He does not crack my top 100 fighters list. He is barely a top ten in his own weight class, for me. Excellent fighter, great career, probably rated more on sentimentality than what he actually was doing. I've often seen him listed highly on p4p ATG lists and third on heavyweight lists. Third best heavy? I can't see it, but will admit that's subjective enough not to have a fit over. High on a p4p ATG list? I don't think it's a subjective matter, I just flat-out think that's wrong and heavily misguided. I see him and Dempsey listed on P4P lists so much it makes me constipated. Well, at my age, everything makes me constipated, but I'll blame it on whatever is handy.
     
    Boxed Ears, Jul 13, 2012
    Boxed Ears, Jul 13, 2012
    #11
  12. 6'4south

    6'4south Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,943
    81
    Apr 2, 2012
    I am a Jack Johnson fan, but I've come to the conclusion, I'm more of a fan because of what he did outside the ring. He's had over 100 fights but unfortunately as I've stated in opening there's just not enough fight footage of him for me to concede some of his legend is contributed to his actual boxing ability. The fights I've seen of him, he always seemed to do a lot of holding and clinching, and playing to the crowd. One thing that did surprise me watching a documentary made on him "Unforgivable Blackness", is that he was a actually known more for his defensive wizardry, and watching his fights I can see how he got that moniker.
     
    6'4south, Jul 13, 2012
    6'4south, Jul 13, 2012
    #12
  13. Mr "T"

    Mr "T" Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,278
    33
    Mar 17, 2007
    Ok, but ranting doesn't change the fact tha current crop can overwhelm the Jack Johnson's, Dempseys, SRR's-even Ali's of the world. The world was different then.
    Take track for example
    Jesse Owens only ran a 10.3 100 meters in '36
    Roger Bannister was only able to muster a 3.96 in the mile in '59
    The best time in the 100 in '72 Olympics was 10.2
    High schoolers beat those times today
    Todays athletes, although pampered and less rugged, and thanks
    to training and healthier lifestyles, are superior over the heroes of the bygone eras. Fact.
     
    Mr "T", Jul 13, 2012
    Mr "T", Jul 13, 2012
    #13
  14. Hands of Iron

    Hands of Iron #MSE Full Member

    14,701
    16
    Feb 23, 2012

    Barry Sanders is still the most talented HB in NFL History. Fact.
     
    Hands of Iron, Jul 13, 2012
    Hands of Iron, Jul 13, 2012
    #14
  15. 6'4south

    6'4south Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,943
    81
    Apr 2, 2012
    @Cael

    Thanks for the vid, but that's exactly what I'm talking about, there's too much footage like the video you posted that makes me question his greatness, not in terms of what he represented during that era, but his actual boxing ability. Still a fan though!
     
    6'4south, Jul 13, 2012
    6'4south, Jul 13, 2012
    #15
Page 1 of 3