Was Jack Johnson vs George Gardner 1902 for LightHeavy Title??

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by RockysSplitNose, Sep 19, 2010.


  1. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I have a book "The Autobiography of JACK JOHNSON In The Ring And Out" a reprint of a book first published it 1927 and in it Johnson is ghost written as saying:

    "My stay on the coast (in 1902) was marked by some of the first important fights of my career. It was also significant because on March 31 1902 , I won the worlds LightHeavyweight Championship from George Gardner, in San Fransisco, in a twenty round battle. Before gaining this title I had a fight in Oakland with Joe Kennedy who had been one of Jim Jeffries principal sparring partners. I won by a knockout in 4 rounds."

    I'd never really heard of this fight ever being referred to as having been for the lightheavyweight title - or even recognised as such by anyone?? Can anyone shed any light on this - was this fight deemed for lightheavy title by anyone - did anyone view it as such?? Pretty if Johnson could've been considered the light heavyweight champ as well as the heavyweight champ?? Ahead of his time or what - no one would do it again until Mike Spinks :lol:
     
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 19, 2010
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 19, 2010
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  2. bobmee

    bobmee New Member Full Member

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    No other reference as far as I know to this being recognised as a title fight at any weight. Nothing I've seen has showed this to be anything more than a routine (very dull) 20-round contest in which Johnson was brought in as a substitute for Joe Choynski, after the promoter was criticised for having made that match.
     
    bobmee, Sep 19, 2010
    bobmee, Sep 19, 2010
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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    This fight seems to have brought Johnson to the elite level.
     
    janitor, Sep 19, 2010
    janitor, Sep 19, 2010
    #3
  4. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    yeah it's pretty wierd - never had read that before???:huh Plus It would be surprising to me if they tried spinning a yarn like that only 25 years after the event ?? Strikes me as though it may have been an opinion that was at least maybe recognised in certain quarters maybe?? - I know Johnson was somewhat unreliable when it came to the things he said he did and didn't do but even so I doubt he would've claimed such a thing only 25 years after the event when it would've been pretty fresh in peoples minds still and everyone would've known he was lying had he been?? It's not like some mythology someone was spouting like 100 years later when everyone involved was dead and buried so he might have got away with a bit of bulls**t?? Anyone else got anything on this - would be interested to hear anything on it really??
     
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 19, 2010
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 19, 2010
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  5. bobmee

    bobmee New Member Full Member

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    Difficult to know what was in Johnson's head. I understand your logic but I'm not sure ordinary sports fans would have paid much attention to the early days of the light-heavyweight division at the time. Obviously, the generally accepted first light-heavyweight title fight was in 1903 between Jack Root and Kid McCoy and Gardner won it from Root later that year, then lost it to Bob Fitzsimmons. Maybe because people might have remembered that Gardner had some recognition as champion, Johnson felt he could get away with spinning a line. But that's just a maybe. I'll try to find more when I get time.
     
    bobmee, Sep 20, 2010
    bobmee, Sep 20, 2010
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  6. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jack weighed in at 185 pounds for that particular L/H title fight!
     
    mattdonnellon, Sep 20, 2010
    mattdonnellon, Sep 20, 2010
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jack O Brien was the reigning Light Heavy Champ when he challenged Tommy Burns for the Heavyweight title.O Brien scaled 167lbs and Burns 175lbs since Burns was inside the LHVy limit ,he could legitimately have claimed the LHVY crown.
     
    mcvey, Sep 20, 2010
    mcvey, Sep 20, 2010
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  8. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah maybe Burns could have claimed both titles simutaneously holding lightheavy and heavyweight titles? Pretty Impressive claim to be able to make

    Was Gardner even a legitimate claimant at the time of the Johnson match? But yeah would it really have mattered anyway with Johnson being a good 185 for the fight?
     
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 20, 2010
    RockysSplitNose, Sep 20, 2010
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  9. bobmee

    bobmee New Member Full Member

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    Gardner had been claiming the middleweight title before that. The story has always been that Lou Houseman, who managed Jack Root, promoted fights and was a sports writer for a Chicago newspaper, created the light-heavyweight title to suit his fighter, and avoided Gardner for the first match in favour of old Kid McCoy as Gardner had beaten Root in 1902. There was no reference to that fight being for the light-heavyweight championship at the time, but Gardner campaigned for another fight with Root and got it. Nothing to do with Johnson, of course.
     
    bobmee, Sep 20, 2010
    bobmee, Sep 20, 2010
    #9