Was Jack Sharkey one of the greatest natural talents of all time?

There would have been no way Sharkey would have ever beaten Tunney,....neither the pre or post Dempsey Tunney. The cool, calculating Tunney would have been beyond the reach of the hot tempered, emotional Gob, and would have outboxed the boxer....and having by far, the better chin, would have been more than able to take whatever Sharkey would have managed to land on him....and the same could not be said for Sharkey. The disciplined Tunney would have capitalized on whatever mistakes Jack would have made, and most importantly, would have stayed focused and never would have abandoned his game plan. i believe that Tunney's unremitting right hand would have played the key role in his offense in this fight, en route to winning a decisive 15 round decision.

 

Schmeling was at one time a top 10 ATG. His resume is impressive.

He caused a sensation when he came to the U.S. In the late 20's. Huge crowds were turned away from his fights at that time.

He was a top hwt contender for over 10 years.

Heavyweight champion of the world which he defended successfully vs leading contender Stribling.

One of the hardest punchers of his time.

Capstone of his career was an all time great technical performance in his ko of near prime Joe Louis. Only fighter ever to beat Louis close to prime.

Cool, calculating boxer puncher always in great physical condition.

 

His resume is solid .
One great win over an unfocused Louis. A win and a draw with Uzcudun,a win and a loss to Sharkey,a win over middleweight Walker, a win over moderate Neusel,one over Stribling ,a manufactured fighter ,and one over gatekeeper Risko.

 

rc, you nailed it with your spot on post. Well done. Kudos...

 

I dont see how Louis could have been any less focussed for Schmeling than he was for Uzcudun, Carnera and Baer. The steaks were just as high. If not higher.

Schmeling v Louis was huge fight. Their 1936 non title fight made $547,541 receipts at the gate with 42,088 attendance. It was a bigger fight financially than actual title fights like Louis v Conn, all of Marcianos title fights apart from the Moore fight and two of the Ingo v Patterson fights. It made more money than any of Ali's title defences in the 1960s.

Schmeling was good enough to beat a more talented youngster using the right tactics. There is no shame in that.

 

:thumbsupThank you sir! I'm glad you agree with me. Tunney IMO, could have hung around, if he was so inclined..and beaten Schmeling, Sharkey, Carnera (of course) Baer and Braddock. By the time Louis makes the scene, Gene the Marine would probably have been a spent force and would have retired.

 

So you refute all that Joe Louis said about his training, or lack of it for the first Schmeling fight, although it is well documented public knowledge ? Makes sense.:silly

 

I don't think Louis lost to Schmeling purely due to lack of condition. Max completely out boxed Louis in one of boxing's greatest performances.

There is a youtube ****ysis of the fight which highlights the subtleties of his victory(sure it was linked on here, recently). It's too simplistic to put it solely down to poor condition on Louis's part.

 

Unless a fighter goes over far too easily, is hog fat, or plain outright quits I dont buy excuses about not training.

Do you buy every excuse from every fighter or just the ones you like?

Joe Louis is my hero but I don't buy his excuse. Maybe Rocky lost to Lastarza too. Everybody is human.

Louis was under a lot of pressure to deliver for his people and every black heavyweight not given a chance after Johnson. A lot of investment was in him. Jacobs had everything riding on him too. There is no evidence Joe Louis was the kind of guy who took any of that for granted.

Everybody's reputation was on the line and his camp would not allow him to go into the ring so ill prepared.

Joe had already delivered hall of fame performances by then. He was not fat, he did not fall apart and neither did he quit.

Schmeling put on a technical master class that Louis, for all his talent, had no answer for at that time. but it was a one time deal. Why try to take that away from max?

 

I say Louis slacked off during his training and I have Louis's own words to back that ,you don't want to accept them that's up to you. No skin off my nose.

 

It's a matter of public record that he cut short sparring sessions, spent too much time on the golf course ,and in bed with an assortment of women ,as well as his wife Marva.
It isn't really that important to me if some wish to deny the facts.
What comments would be made about a fighters condition if he wins are irrelevant.It's known that Max Baer slacked of in training for Braddock though he came in around his normal weight that means jack sh*t , had he won ,no -one would have mentioned his poor condition,so what?

 

The fact that Louis was able to resurrect his career after the Schmeling set back proves his body must have been conditioned for a fight.

Joe Louis was a remarkable phenomenon, had he been so badly conditioned I dont think he gets up from the first knockdown. If badly conditioned he still somehow managed to take that beating (as some believe) for as long as he did I would be surprised he could go on and achieve what he did. I think that fight was career ending/shortening stuff for any fighter not in shape. Think of Bowe against Golota as just one example.

Tunney's career survived after his pounding from Greb only because Gene was so fit. I think the same was true of Louis.

 

So if Louis was not in supreme condition the Schmeling fight would have ruined him?


Louis was 22 years old your body can take punishment at that age that it would wilt under when you have more mileage on your clock.atsch

Ludicrous.