Was James Toney off-form or just outclassed vs Jones?

In all fairness, Jones was quite clearly weight-drained in this one. I think it was the last one he made MW and during the last 4-5 rounds you can see that he's more tired than usual even though it wasn't a very high paced fight.

Taking this into account and that Jones hadn't had very many fights himself, I think this is as good as it gets as a fight on more or less even terms. All this nit-picking becomes a bit tedious, since it's just about impossible to find two fighter facing each other when both are exactly as close to their peaks and in the exact same physical and mental shape etc.

This is good enough for me.

 

That´s the first time I hear anybody claimint that. Any backup?

I think we had that enough in here. Bottom line is, Jones had a far superior amateur career against suprior opponents than Hopkins. What Jones made such a terrific fighter was his athletic ability. Those fighters are at their best when they are young. Like Jones was. Hopkins is a fighter who relied on his craftyness, experience and boxing brain. Those fighters are at their best when they are older. Like Hopkins was not. Jones was entering his prime while Hopkins was still about 4-6 years removed from his. It´s a good win but certainly not a great one.
Last thing I say on this topic. Done it too often. I´m tired of it.

 

As I said, he does look it. Think the commentators makes a mention of it as well. He had been over 160 for his last three last fights and would continue so for the rest of his career (with one exception). As a good case as for for Hopkins being weight drained I'd say.

Ok, you seem a bit biased to me. Jones was 24 with some 20 fights. He would continue to improve. Just as for example Ali did at the stage of his career. And I'm fed up with this natural athlete/technicians BS. It has gone way overboard.

Yes, Hopkins is the better overall technician. But there are so much more than athleticism to boxing, even for the Joneses of this world. No one just walks in a ring the complete package. No matter how much natural gifts you have it takes many, many years and fights to mature as a fighter. And Hopkins longevity has also very much to do with that he kept a relatively high level of speed and stamina for very long. His athletic attributes has simply stayed with him very well. Against Pavlik he not only possesed superior technique, but was also much faster and probably stronger. The similarities between Hopkins and Jones are much bigger than the differences here.

Perhaps Hopkins was a bit further from the finished product, but with weight issues and everything considered it's probably as even as it gets. I'm so ****ing sick of the nitpicking on the forum when a popular fighter has suffered a bad loss. There's always something the matter. As it is even possible to have a situation where you can't find something when you really try.

You're right, though. No need to discuss any further. Already have you pegged.

 

Dream on. And here it´s not just looking for something but it´s obvious for everybody with common sense and some boxing knowledge. Not for you it seems though.

 

Of course Jones improved. He was himself still a young fighter back then. I never doubted it. Doesn´t make any difference to my arguement.

 

Yeah, that seems to be the lingo around here when you don't want to give a perfomance (or a fighter) it's due. Personally, I'm kind of tired of it.

 

Show me where I didn´t give a fighter his due? I stated more than once that I think Roy Jones Jr was a great fighter but also one who did not fullfill his potential due to the decisions he made. His legacy suffers from it. instead of beeing a Top10 fighter he is "merely" a Top35/40 fighter.
But yeah, I don´t give him his due. I probably think higher of his talent and potential than everyone other PowerPuncher on here. :bart

 

Hey, what's this; trying to act like I didn't hedge? I'm not Greece you know. It was: "give a perfomance (or fighter) it's due". It's all in the fine print.

 

Perhaps you should read better then. I wrote that it was a good win over a good fighter/contender.

 

Hopkins was still an excellent fighter when he fought Jones, mainly he just hadn't refined his style.

 

bodhi, the boy wonder, what a ******

 

Hopkins was a good fighter and a good contender but not excellent. Yet. He also didn´t fight anywhere the style which with the would have his biggest success.

 

Not that it matters anymore, but James Toney at 217 pounds in 2003 would KTFO of Royale "With Cheese" Jones at 199 pounds in that very same year....... Toney was much more of an animal at above 200 pounds than what Jones ever proved to be.......

Common opponent: John Ruiz......... Ruiz was in great shape for both fights of 2003 and '05, but he lost his ass to both Jones and Toney in similar fashion......

MR.BILL